To ask how you split childcare if you and your partner both work?

[MamaBear17]

Long, tedious story short, my husband and I are both teachers. We work in different schools. I am a middle manager so have two areas of responsibility and a team of 8 to manage, in addition to being a class teacher, dh is a class teacher, however he works in primary so does have a fairly heavy workload too. We both work f/t. Currently, dh takes our dd (2) to nursery on two mornings and picks her up 2 evenings. I take her three mornings and pick her up two evenings. The 5th evening is split between us depending on when we have meetings etc. DD has to be picked up by 3.45. We are on a school hours contract with the nursery and would have to pay extra for her to stay later (which we cant afford). Anyway, we seem to have a re-occurring situation where dh complains that he is getting behind on work or people are commenting that he is leaving early during the week - I should point out that most weeks he stays late three nights a week and I leave 'early' three nights a week to pick dd up. I have tried my best to make it fair, I do more pick ups and drop offs than he does but cannot lose the two nights I stay behind because I have to cram in all of my meetings and extra curricular into those times. On the face of it, he gets the better deal despite a lighter workload, but makes me feel like I am being unreasonable because I get cross when he starts complaining about doing too many of the pick ups. We both have to work in the evenings in order to make the situation work, but I am happy to do it because it means that we do get to spend some time with dd (she goes to bed at 6.30 - if we picked her up any later we'd never see her). My question is this: is my husband hard done by in having to do an almost equal share of the childcare? Family members have made comments in the past about how when their children were little the man wasn't expected to do any of the childcare because he was busy working, and if he was the only one who worked I would agree. However, the fact that I am the main earner seems to fall on deaf ears. I feel a bit like I am being made to feel like a battleaxe for insisting that we share childcare and household chores, but I just cant do everything.

[TempusFuckit]

To answer the question OP, no YANBU. But I don't think that's the main issue here - it's guilt and peer pressure.

If your DH really is angling to do less, then you need to thrash it out. But equally, you need to find a way to allow him to let off steam about the comments without passing the guilt onto you.

Similarly, you need to be able to find a way to throw off the comments from the older women in your families. Smiling and nodding is often recommended here I believe.

Your DD should start staying up later soon, which could alleviate some of the guilt too - enough to allow you to pay for extra hours? Or is that truly unaffordable?

It's a tough situation, but focus on the positives - you both have supportive bosses, flexible-enough hours, and a very geographically workable set-up.

[Iaintdunnuffink]

We both work full time, but not in education. I work 15 mins from the school and it's Ok that I start just after 9, so I do the drop off. I also do the pick up from after school care as I can get there before 6.

As my husband can work from home he does sick child days, and a lot more holiday care.

[mamadoc]

The main problem here is patriarchal society expectations!

I sympathise as we get it too.

I am the higher wage earner by some way despite working 4 days a week but my job is very much not flexible. No way I can just drop it for a school event or DC sickness. I am letting a lot of people down if I do. Also it is unpredictable and I might need to stay late to deal with a situation at short notice.

DH is notionally full time but self employed so he has a lot of flexibility. Our deal is that he picks up all the ad hoc stuff.
Currently we drop and pick up one child each but next year when DS starts nursery and they're in the same place I plan to rearrange my hours to do half the pick ups. He will do drop offs.

Our arrangement works for us but I particularly am sick of the comments from family and other parents on the school run: oh you are so lucky that he does all that etc, etc.

It's not lucky it's fair!! They are his kids too.
Never any 'isn't he lucky to benefit from your stable income and guaranteed pension so he can continue to work in the low paid and insecure job he loves'. If our genders were reversed I expect he would be the SAHP by now but I never made him do that as it's not what he wants.

Some child at school asked DD 'do you actually have a mummy?' Because DH usually does school runs.

My mum asked me to 'particularly thank DH' for 'babysitting' his own DC one weekend so I could support her at a hospital appt!

Mum and MIL think he is a saint if he washes up a cup and roundly criticise me for taking him away from his business to do childcare. DH knows he can't support the family on his wage even if he worked all day every day and it would be incredible pressure on him to try to do it which he actually doesn't want.

We recently argued about it and he agreed to start calling them on these comments and backing me up.

OP I guess your DH is suffering from these comments because it is still unusual to really share things equally but he needs to stand up in the face of it and back your arrangements which are wholly fair.

[BackforGood]

I think you have a very strange perception of what it is like to work in a Primary school. In 25 years, I've never worked with a teacher who expected to leave at 3.30 - it's just not how it works! You need to plan and prepare with your TA, with the SENCo, with your Yr Group partner, with whoever is leading on this month's initiative. You need to go hunting in the store cupboard to check the magnets are there for the Science lesson (and track them down if not) and then get out the paints or whatever for the art lesson, and then meet up with the colleague you are planning the residential visit with, and then get on the phone to the teacher at the other school you are playing that fixture against, etc.,etc.etc. It's not about having a pile of books you can just put in the car to mark that evening.
If you want to (or have to) both work full time, then you need to pay for full time childcare.

[Mimishimi]

My dad is a primary teacher and he used to get back at five -five thirty. My mum was too until her third child. If your husband is nit implying that you should do all pickup/dropoffs, then just see it as a whinge to let off steam. YADNBU to think it should be equally shared among you.

[KeatsiePie]

BackforGood it's not really a perception though is it? It's their actual experience of working in their schools. Apparently these hours are in fact fine with their bosses, so that's that.

MamaBear YANBU. Seems like your DH is just tired of things being hard. It happens -- sometimes I get tired of things being hard, sometimes my DH does. Not really fair of him to pass his tiredness on to you in a whiny expectant my-wife-needs-to-fix-this-for-me way, that's just irritating.

But the answer I think is to sit down together for a half hour on the weekend and look at the options. 1, More childcare (I know, the $$, but haul out the budget and just have a quick look so that he'll feel like all the options are being considered). 2, Different childcare, if there is any, worth brainstorming anyway. 3, Different balance of hours between you and him (you can bring this up for the sole purpose of explaining why it wouldn't work and shooting it down. Or who knows, maybe he'll have a brilliant idea about switching things around that will actually work). And 4, his getting a backbone so he can shrug off/retort to stupid comments. Backbone will probably win If you talk it all out, he'll feel a sense of ownership over the decision and will go back to work on Monday prepared to take no shit.

[pennefab]

DP & I both work full time, but he is major earner. I drop off every morning & pick up every afternoon. Commute in morning is 1 hr: home-school- work. By afternoon, commute 1.5 hrs: work-school-home. I have more flexibility - I work 6 hrs/day in office (no break) the add'l 10/wk from home at my discretion. It wouldn't occur to me to complain about division of work, pick-up/drop-off, or that he isn't pulling his weight. I do b that my commute is soul-sucking miserable drain. Key point is that I B about something 3rd party - not him, DC, etc.

We agreed on this at get-go. For my flexible work (priceless) and hence lower wage, I get school run. He has also stepped up with grocery shopping & isn't phased by dusty home (pretty clutter-free) and will pitch in when gets too messy/dirty. He leaves later in morning, home later in evening-but when home also steps up with parenting (my brain shuts off at 4:30 and energy gone by 5:30).

Anything can be negotiated or compromised.

So maybe, OP, you might want to discuss how each of you deal with the drawbacks/impositions your current arrangement have. E.g., he can b and moan about comments from coworkers and how it makes him feel like s. But - he's moaning about their comments and his feelings - not about the situation you both agreed to in the beginning, not about you or DC.

You can b* and moan as well - but it's not about each other or the relative imposition of your arrangements. Both of you are moaning about how others can't keep their big mouths shut ... You both become a "team" against the others?

[trinity0097]

You said your hubby works in a primary school, sadly any teacher in most of those who leaves on time is frowned on even if they work later at home.

[Kiwiinkits]

Honestly? I think one of you needs to look into a more flexible career choice. Use your teaching skills to set up a consultancy of some sort? Tutoring? Create a reading programme and sell it on As Seen on TV? The options are endless...

[redskyatnight]

On paper your arrangement looks fair.
However DH is clearly finding that in practice it just doesn't work with his committments. I agree that you need to look at paying for more childcare - that afternoon pickup every day is just not working for you as a family.


My DH does more afternoon pickups than me. That is because his work is genuinely flexible about him organising his day that way.
On paper my work is also happy for me to organise my day to do the pickups, but in practice, if I do it on more than the odd occasion it means a huge amount of juggling, and a certain "feeling" that everyone is bending over backwards to accomodate me and that really it would be much simpler and better if I didn't. Of course, if I have to I just get on with it and ignore - but I do have to work with these people every day, and meeting the work "norms" makes my life much less stressful. It does sound like you and DH are in a similar situation - just because DH's work in theory is happy for him to go straight after school, doesn't mean that this is easy/appropriate for him to do.

[clam]

mamadoc "The main problem here is patriarchal society expectations!"
No it's not. The main problem here is that there is "a" teacher who is feeling awkward and, presumably, unable to do his job properly (read backforgood's list and add to that displays for a start - plus a few dozen other jobs that can't be done at home), and who is now the target of jibes from colleagues about his commitment. That is nothing to do with gender.

The comments from family members is a different thing - their opinion doesn't count.

[BlackDaisies]

Completely agree that this is difficult due to his being a primary school teacher. As backforgood says, time after school is used for making and gathering resources for lessons, creating displays, planning/ replanning according to children's achievements, liaising with colleagues etc, As a teacher I would seriously begin to struggle leaving work pretty much as the children leave twice a week whether senior management "approved" or not. He doesn't even really have the half an hour you mention to do anything constructive, as the children will still be leaving for at least ten minutes, and he will need to be gathering stuff to take home for at least ten minutes. Could you look into a childminder picking up and giving you a couple of hours on at least one each of your days? Or else look into either of you dropping a day? Of course YANBU thinking childcare responsibility should be split, but YABU to dismiss your dh trying to tell you this does not work for him.

[mamadoc]

Ok I don't know much about teaching but OP has repeatedly reassured us that his working arrangement is sanctioned by school management.

Are you so sure that it's not about gender? If he was a female primary teacher I seriously suspect there would be less comments about him taking responsibility for some pick ups.

If it's not about gender then why is it OK for OP to leave early on her pick up days but not her DH?

I stand by my assertion that gender has got a lot to do with it.

[redskyatnight]

mamadoc OP and her DH have different jobs and work in different workplaces. You can't extrapolate that because it is ok for OP it is ok for DH! Maybe female teachers at DH's school have the same issues?

As I said upthread there's a difference between management sanctioning something and it actually being ok on a practical day to day level.

[clam]

I disagree that there would be fewer comments if it were a female teacher leaving early. I am very surprised that the Management of either of these schools are happy with the arrangement, or that either of them are properly able to carry out all their responsibilities in school, but there you go.

[mamadoc]

I guess I would have more sympathy for the DH if he was suggesting getting more childcare as a solution as others have done but in fact he is asking OP to do more and him less. If he can't manage his pick ups than he should arrange a later stay on his days.

[clam]

I don't think the issue is who should arrange the childcare for a later stay, but that they as a family can't afford that extra care. Oh, and that she goes to bed at 6.30 so they wouldn't have much time with her.

The trouble is though, that that's an issue faced by thousands of parents and, sorry to put it so bluntly, isn't the school's problem.

[Phineyj]

In OP's situation I would be a bit worried about the imminent arrival of performance related pay - as failing to go up a pay grade would cost the OP and her DH a lot more than an extra afternoon of childcare in the long run.

I think there is an element of being seen to be present here & not dumping tidying up/prep duties on colleagues (not saying that is happening but maybe there is a perception).

OP, having worked in places where people tutted when I occasionally left on time, I do sympathise.

[ljny]

You can't do it all and you can't have it all.

Pay for the extra nursery hours, economise elsewhere.

Your daughter really won't notice a few extra hours a week. Again, you can't have it all.

In this economy, it matters if things aren't working for DH job-wise. But you can't cover his shortfall just because you're female!

It might help for DH to start thinking more like a working parent and less like a traditionally male colleague, iyswim. HellsBells gave excellent advice:

ensure he is in the staffroom every morning and ask the people who are making comments "what time do you call this? I've been here for hours..."

[BackforGood]

No Mamadoc - it's got nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with the fact he teaches in a Primary school, where, as many people have said, it's the nature of the job that a number of hours of work outside teaching have to be done on the premises. That doesn't matter if you are a man, a woman, a parent or not, it's part of the job. Apparently it is more flexible in (some subjects) in secondary, but you can't do the job properly if you are leaving at 3.30 on a regular basis, as a Primary school teacher.

[ThePitOfStupid]

He is leaving at 1530 on two days out of five and his management are OK with it.

[clam]

That's what I don't understand. I just cannot see how the job can be done on those hours. Sorry, but I don't.
I'm pretty efficient and good at multi-tasking and I would really be struggling if I left before 5 even once a fortnight.

[stealthsquiggle]

"it's the nature of the job that a number of hours of work outside teaching have to be done on the premises"

..but not, presumably, always after school? If he is putting in the hours before school instead, why does that matter ?

[clam]

I suppose it doesn't, for things like displays, which only involve the class teacher. But if a sub-group of teachers need to meet in order to discuss, say, the Christmas play, it's severely limiting the opportunities if two, possibly three evenings are out due to someone not being there. It's unlikely that the majority of staff would want or be able to meet up before school. Another evening will presumably be set aside for a formal staff meeting (two evenings in my school, actually), and then there are sports matches and IEP meetings and so on.

[Pilgit]

Haven't read the whole thread but the problem is his works. He needs to stand up for himself at work and challenge it head on by calling his colleagues on their attitude. Ask them if they would ask a female colleague the same and basically embarrase themselves into shutting the fuck up. I am sure he is doing his job fully and properly the issue is prssrnteism culture. This is an issue women face all the time. Instead of taking it out on you he needs to man up and be proud of himself and you for making your situation work.

Do not compromise further. Ignore your dm and milthey feel threatened by you defying normality. They will see your insistence on equity as a challenge to their choices.