WIBU or was the other parent - library hell

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I take DD (almost 3) to the library a lot. She likes it there and I like books so it works. She is a loud, independent child who needs some social skills. I am under no illusion that she is well-behaved but we are working on it. The librarians love her.

Today there was a little boy (the same age exactly) who was playing too. She had the trains first, wandered off and he started playing with them. There were other trains but he had the 'best' set. She wanted them. She was being a complete PITA but I was removing her, warning her and gave her two time-outs. She knew that the third meant we were leaving. She didn't hit, push or anything like that. She did try to snatch a few times.

The other child also didn't want to share (fine, he had them) but was whining and crying every time she went within two feet. "Daddy, that little boy wants my toy, daddy, that little boy is getting a time-out". Don't get me started on DD being called a boy. He also shouted and screamed at her a couple of times.

Anyhow, she went near him again, no touching, and I said, "one more touch and we are leaving". The Dad said, "are you just going to keep warning or are you going to follow through?" Really angrily. I said, "she's had two time-outs". Then the Dad flounced off saying something PA about not being able to play.

So, vipers, I think we were both a little U. He probably didn't see the time-outs (I removed her from the table to do them) but his child wasn't sharing either and his behaviour wasn't perfect, just different to mine. I was trying, he could see that. I wish, in my hardened, mean heart, I had let DD take the bloody train. Since we got told off anyway.

Maybe we should have just left the moment the issue arose but how will she learn?

[Goldenbear]

He was rude but I'm not sure why he should be expected to have someone in his personal space if he didn't want that? Not sure about being forced to share- I used to get myself het up about this with DS who is now 6.5 and wanted to be seen to be doing the 'right' thing but now with DD who is 2.5 i am much more relaxed- the Dad you came across would've hated me as I don't bother with 'time outs' or any particular discipline methods. Oddly, DD has never got upset about toys she just gives them up. However, she is shy and can get cross about children playing near her. I try to gently remind her that it's not a big deal and she is getting better but I'm not going to force her to behave in a certain way because of other peoples expectations. In that sense you were right to be annoyed by him.

[Evelynevening]

I don't see the problem with 'forcing' your child to share. If we are at toddler group or library and someone less wants the toy I say to dc 'that it's belongs to the library, when you've had 5/10mins you can let _ have a turn' and then I time 5/10 minutes. Sometime dc is bored if the toy before 10 minuets anyway. But I think they need to know that toys in a communal situation need to be shared/take turns with.

[stopthebusiwanttogetoff]

I think he was rude and BU. judgemental prick, it would have bothered me all day if I were you!

That said, I would have probably said at the start loud enough for the man to hear "oh look the little boy has the trains you were playing with! Let's read a story while we wait for him to have his turn." Then I would have said to the dad directly "please can you give us a nod when he is done, she was playing with them and wandered off so I will read her a story while she is waiting for another shot."

[cakebar]

I can understand the guy being fed up, if you have more than one time out for doing the same thing then from his point of view your discipline isn't working.

I also think it helps to think about terminology, you thought the boy ought to share, but you can't share a train. You could take turns. I'm being pedantic I know, but if you refer to 'sharing' inaccurately then it will take dc longer to know what that actually means.

In this situation I would see that my dc wasn't going to be happy and would have removed her from the train area until the other kid had gone.

[pianodoodle]

Why should the other child have "shared" something he was playing with? I never understand this

Because it's nice? My 2 year old doesn't have many friends her own age yet when we do go to a group or have another toddler over it's a chance for me to teach her about things like sharing and playing together.

I don't want her starting school/pre school thinking everything's hers I don't want to be the mum who gets stern letters sent home

[pianodoodle]

Fair enough if it's one thing and they need to take turns.

[hermioneweasley]

He should have encouraged his child to take turns.

He sounds like a twat and is going to find life hard at soft play etc if this is his attitude!

[EndoplasmicReticulum]

I don't think libraries should have toys. I think they should have books, and shushing (old fashioned!).

Anyway, I think you might have given too many warnings, she was obviously determined to get the train and it was not going to end well either way!

[MrsTerryPratchett]

True cake. DD was definitely doing that thing to see exactly how far she could go. She apologized after the TO and asked if she could have a turn. No was the answer. She is an expert in Mummy manipulation. Garr.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Endo my DB is a librarian and would agree.

[hettienne]

There's a difference between thinking everything is yours, and just wanting to use something unmolested.

If you as an adult are at the library, reading one of the newspapers, and another adult came along and wanted that one, you wouldn't let them share it with you, or accept a 5 minute time limit before handing it over. You'd expect them to go and read a different paper.

Sometimes children have to go and play with a different train.

[Goldenbear]

I do understand what you are saying about sharing but I find not many people encourage this behaviour and as a result your child ends up losing out for doing the 'right' thing. My Dd has the opposite problem of giving up things too easily and running off in fear of the child who is a bit assertive, so i don't have to really tackle sharing with her. The only place I have actively encouraged sharing, is at a under 5's activity morning that has lots of those little tike cars and a cornered off area to drive them around. I'll encourage her to go and try something else so other children can have a turn, which she'll happily do but then it usually follows that the child who replaces her hogs the car for the rest of the session! The only lesson they learn from this forced sharing is that they lose out and their Mother/Father was an enabler of that!

[misspontypine]

I don't think sharing was appropriate in this situation, an adult wouldn't go up to another adult in a library and say "I would like to read that library book your reading, can I have a go?."

Yes it is a communal toy but assuming there are other toys I think a child should be allowed to play with the toy until their game comes to a natural end.

Kids always want the toy another child is playing with, I read that it is because the other child is demonstrating the toy so child can much more easily imagine playing with that toy ( rather than choosing a stationary disregarded toy) if you think of tv advertising the toys are always being played with because they look much more fun that way.

Did you try playing with the other toys to try to change your dds focus?

[LeBearPolar]

Hettienne - 'Sometimes children have to go and play with a different train."

I love it. It sounds very profound and as if it applies to so many potential situations in life!

[Alexandrite]

I would understand his annoyance if your dd had grabbed the toy and you had done nothing about it, but you were doing your best! You weren't just leaving her to it. The little boy wasn't exactly covering himself with glory with the shouting/screaming/whining, so the dad should have perhaps been a bit more forgiving of your dd's hehaviour!

[Goldenbear]

IMO enforcing your 'sharing' standards on to others but asking another to alert you to when their child has finished playing with it has a lot of potential problems- the parent might not bother on insisting on this and you are getting your child to fixate on something that is very minor in the scheme of things.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I tried the other stuff. Her beloved horse was there and I was putting them for train rides on the other trains. DD just wanted that one.

I don't enforce sharing on others. I know people differ in their rules.

[kmc1111]

I think you were both BU. The man was rude, but if your daughter had tried to snatch the toy from the boy and was now hovering a couple of feet away barely restraining herself from pouncing, well that was probably quite stressful for him.

I would have been getting annoyed if I was watching my DS having to watch out for your daughter instead of being able to enjoy himself, and honestly if she was fixated on this one toy she couldn't have right now I'd be wondering why you weren't just taking her to go find a book or something else to distract her. Though I wouldn't of butted in unless they started fighting over the toy. If it was the only train it would have been nice if the he'd given her a go after he'd had it a while, but it wasn't, and given he couldn't enjoy his turn because of her, I don't really think he needed to share in that situation anyway.

But really, not a big deal anyway you look it, so don't sweat it.

[DrankSangriaInThePark]

at both "the terrible thirties" (I have one going through the terrible forties I think) and Hettienne's quote...I think MN should adopt it as QOTW.

[Retroformica]

I do think if two time outs don't work, best to go home.

Was the son just scared your DD was going to take the train? No wonder he got anxious.

Also about sharing. The boy was having his turn and your DD should have just waited for her turn. Wether it be 3 mins or 20 mins.

[saintlyjimjams]

Believe me - smug fathers of well behaved NT kids are a special kind of smug.

The closest I have come to lamping anyone was the smug father of two NT girls who were sat neatly colouring in thoughout the 4 hour Irish Sea crossing we were enduring. I was 6 months pregnant trying to deal with my severely autistic then 5 year old ds1. Yes he was tricky - he's severely autistic FFS and at that time had the language development of a 12 month old. He was also on a crowded ferry & stessed to the eyeballs.

Smug-father shook his head at me with a shit on his shoe expression. I swear I can close to lamping him.

[redskyatnight]

Not what you asked I know, but I don't think the average 2 year old can reliably tell the difference between boys and girls. Mine couldn't anyway.

[ApplePippa]

Saintly I've met that special smugness from smug fathers of NT children too .

I was in the library once with my autistic DS. DS discovered that the boxes of picture books were on wheels, and was trying to rearrange them so they were all lined up. I was struggling to rein DS in, simultaneously with trying to choose some books for him. There was a smug dad reading his well-behaved dd book after book. He kept shooting me filthy looks, and when his dd piped up "Daddy, that boy's being really naughty" he replied loudly "Yes he is, isn't he? You know how to behave don't you dd?".

OP, don't sweat it. Just chalk it up as one of those things and move on.