To be really disturbed and upset about last nights Downton Abbey? SPOILER ALERT

[CiderBomb]

I won't say what happened in case there are people on here who haven't watched it yet, but I was really, really shocked by that one scene in particular and can't get it out of my head this morning. Just when people were saying that they thought it was getting boring they go and throw that in. And a much loved character as well...

I'm not one of these sad people who complains about things on television, especially when they happen after the watershed, but I found that really shocking and it seemed to come from nowhere.

I know it happens all the time in real life, even today, but bloody hell :(

[BreatheandFlyAway]

It made me feel sick and I couldn't get it out of my mind. Why does it need portraying? People suffering violence themselves would be watching DA for the warmth and feeling of it, which was wilfully and violently shattered by last night's episode. I feel I never want to watch it again and it was one of the very few programmes I looked forward to.

Rape or abuse as a storyline makes me feel sick and shows that the man who wrote this cannot understand how endemic it is for women even today and that it is therefore not an appropriate thing to dump into a previously warming, lovely family drama. If I want to watch gritty sexual violence (I don't BTW, which is why I liked DA ), I would choose a different programme on the tv, not DA.

It's obviously done for the shock factor, trying to make a name for himself, pushing boundaries and all the other crappy reasons why men think it's OK to make entertainment out of violence against women and children. How about a male rape scene, huh? Oh no, he wouldn't dare rock that boat.

[CiderBomb]

I remember her as Zoe, she left to join a cult didn't she. She was in Bad Girls shortly after Corrie and I think her character ended up committing suicide? That was also quite shocking at the time.

[CoolStoryBro]

I found the most disturbing part was Lord Granthams terrible acting and the fact he gamboled the family money away. Again.

[squoosh]

I think people are taking this WAY too seriously.

[ScarerAndFuck]

I'm going to go against the grain and say I don't think they changed the characters or their relationship with each other to create this storyline.

I don't think Bates' dislike of Mr Green was jealousy, or that Anna enjoying herself was flirting or a change from her normally serious character.

She's always been that little bit bubbly, and although she controls herself, you do see that side to her and it's one of the things Bates normally seems to like about her.

She asked why Bates didn't like Green and he said he just had a bad feeling about it. I think everyone else assumed jealousy but I think it was something else, some intuition about him.

When you are secure in your relationship, as they both seemed to be, then jealousy doesn't come into it so easily and neither does the worry that you might be seen as flirting if you are friendly with someone else.

Which I think is all Anna was. She does like to enjoy herself, she learned those dances in the Christmas episode as much to make Bates happy as to enjoy herself.

And I don't think Bates believed her for one second when she said she fainted and then spoilt her dress. I just don't think he wanted to push her. He trusts her and I think he knew she had a reason for behaving a little oddly, he just has no idea how bad it is.

The scenes we did see were absolutely shocking, I'm not surprised at all they gave a warning before the programme started. But I'm glad we didn't actually see more than we did because it kept it as a serious issue rather than trivialised. And hopefully it's opened some peoples eyes as to how brutal rape is.

[zower]

probably better to watch Straw Dogs in that case.

regardless, i am aware that rape, violence and murder are continually served up ad enrtertainment on british tv, even on feministy progs like Scot & Bailey (IMO).

[frankie4]

I am put off watching so many things on tv as I don't want to watch rape. Most police, detective, drama, soaps etc programmes have rape in. Many porn films online have rape in so there are obviously many men who enjoy watching it, but as there is so much rape on tv does it follow that people enjoy watching rape on tv? Many other bad things happen a lot in real life like domestic violence and bullying, or horrific accidents, but we don't see as much of this on tv, just a lot of rape as it obviously has a sexual side to it. It really upsets me.

[Darkesteyes]

Joanne Froggatt is a bloody good actress I remember her in Corrie I also remember her playing Sam Tylers/John Simms mum in Life on Mars.
There was an interview with her in last months Psychologies. Shes in a film called Filth by Irvine Walsh out in cinemas at the mo playing a widow.
She comes across as very down to earth This interview was conducted by Irvine Walsh so it was really interesting to read.

[Darkesteyes]

James McAvoy is in it as well
Which reminds me the Drama channel are re showing State of Play from Wednesday.

[SamHamwidge]

I am disappointed with what they have done with Bates and Anna this series, after all they went through while he was in jail I was hoping that they'd have a little bit of wedded bliss and maybe a little baby, instead they were both shoved downstairs without storyline as though the previous two series had never happened. And now this :(
It's a shame that many characters who started off so strong have become damp squibs.
I think they should end its run soon, I would hate to see it become truly awful.

[squoosh]

What does Straw Dogs have to do with Downton? Straw Dogs features a highly dodgy rape scene, the rape in DA wasn't actually shown. It wasn't gratuitous.

[hollyisalovelyname]

I bet Anna will be pregnant and the guessing game of 'whose the father' will start.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Lady Mary is rather wooden.
I watch Downton but i do think it is overated.

[TigOldBitties]

I think its a ridiculous suggestion that Julian Fellowes is trying to make a name for himself at this point let alone do it with a moderate rape scene.

It wasn't particularly comfortable viewing and I can totally empathise that personal experience of sexual assault would make it all rather harrowing but I'm much more shocked about how seriously some people take it rather than the actual scene itself.

It was well acted, you barely saw anything, it was never said that she was raped, all totally implied meaning that it could be explained away to families who watch it.

I thought they had specifically made Anna have all this fun with Nigel's character so that in the future when the truth outs (as it always seems to so conveniently on tv), someone will turn round and do some massive victim blaming. They've set up to show attitudes I thought rather than reinforce them.

A previous poster mentioned male rape. As we haven't seen the new scene yet its hard to tell but it did look like something of this kind was going on with Tom and the new female servant. We see her plying him with alcohol and then then it looks like next week he's talking about not remembering what happened and apologising. Maybe there is a male sexual assault, maybe she takes advantage of him.

[MistressDeeCee]

Ive followed Downton from the beginning and I found the scene with Anna totally shocking. Was watching with my teen DD..it was the way he hit her then dragged her to the room it stuck in my mind for a good while. I turned on 5 minutes after programme started so I didnt see any warning. I suppose I just didnt want to see it on Downton & wonder about rape as a shock tactic to increase ratings kind of thing. Possibly followed by lots of depressing harrowing scenes of a bewildered Bates and bitter, shaken up Anna..and marriage going downhill, with a pregnancy thrown in. Probably. I dont know..it just didnt sit right with me. Its a Sunday night drama, cant they leave all that alone? Yes Mary is wooden but her mother is even worse, seems to have been dumbed down completely.

[MrsDavidBowie]

Why all this "Sunday night drama has to be pure and unsullied"?
Is that a rule I've missed along the way?

I never watched Call the Midwife, but I gather it wasn't all sweetness and light...even programmes like Heartbeat had grittier episodes.

[squoosh]

I agree MrsDavidBowie, the very reason I don't bother with a lot of Sunday night telly is because of this idea it's supposed to be 'milk maids frolicking in country meadows dappled with sunlight'.

Call the Midwife had some pretty bleak episodes.

And that's a good point about the predatory new female servant TigOld.

[drudgewithagrudge]

I would bet a million pounds she is pregnant. It always happens in plays. Not happy with using rape as a plot device.

[squoosh]

Why is rape off bounds a plot device? You never hear anyone complaining about Midsomer Murders and their mountains of murder victims.

[Bubbles1066]

Call the midwife had a very upsetting back street abortion themed episode; not easy viewing at all. I agree Sunday evening entertainment isn't always happy. I'm in two minds about Downton. On one hand it was awful but then rape is and I'm sure rape was prevelant back then (just like now) so I do feel it was appropriate.

[TigOldBitties]

I also don't agree that Sunday nights should be all songs of praise and joy.

Surely its a good time to raise issues if thats when people sit down as a family. It starts a discussion.

The scene was hardly graphic, he hit her once and then there was some screaming. If people were displeased that certain members of the family had seen it then surely it could be explained away. I watched it with my teens who weren't disturbed at all. There was a lot of "oh poor anna" but its a fact of life unfortunately.

It also highlighted to me how vulnerable the servants or anybody was in those big houses, that they weren't like real homes, more public places. I think its good they raised the issue of rape and reminded people that it happened then too. Surely if they just brushed that topic under the carpet, you could technically accuse them of saying its a modern problem and that supports this idea that its because women now wear skimpy clothes or go out drinking etc. It would be an indirect example of victim blaming.

Julian Fellowes has said in an interview I heard that he researches and makes an effort to raise difficult issues. I think we're going to now see a whole plot on the effects of rape and how difficult life was for women in that situation. It might be an education to some.

[QuenellefireAndDamnation]

I watched it last night on Sky+. I was expecting something because I had seen this thread in active conversations.

I have been half expecting the story to come back to Bates and the question of whether he actually did murder his first wife to arise again. But even a man who didn't habitually go round killing people could be provoked to kill someone who raped his wife. If that's where they're going with it it's a bit extreme. I don't know...

I am disappointed that DA has taken such a nasty turn - I would watch Eastenders if I wanted gritty realism. But I appreciate I'm not the only viewer and some people like more to happen in a drama than everyday Upstairs Downstairs-type goings-on.

[ScarerAndFuck]

frankie84 "Many other bad things happen a lot in real life like domestic violence and bullying, or horrific accidents, but we don't see as much of this on tv, just a lot of rape as it obviously has a sexual side to it. It really upsets me."

I think that most TV drama will feature rape at some point and in police drama I think you can expect it as it's a crime so naturally it will be something they come to sooner or later.

As for soaps and dramas, I think perhaps you notice what is close to you and it is upsetting, especially if they seem to trivialise it for entertainment.

I had a stillborn baby and now everything seems to involve someone losing a baby. In fiction at the moment it seems to be the default setting for so many books lately, usually accompanied by the grieving mother turning into some sort of villain of the piece, and it's on lots of programmes as well. Lose a baby in soapland or current fiction and you have to go out and steal someone else's because that's what we all do you know That's not a at you by the way, it's just at the lazy way these plots and story lines are put together.

Downton has featured a miscarriage I believe, although before I started to watch it.

And they do cover so many other subjects as well, soaps have covered domestic violence and bullying and horrific accidents and continue to do so. Not always well, or sensitively, but they do cover them.

I don't think they trivialised the attack on Anna, not in this particular episode anyway. The violence against her was shocking when he hit her and dragged her into the other room but they showed nothing else, just an empty corridor and her scream with nobody yo hear it. I think that was worlds away from entertainment as it wasn't at all comfortable or entertaining to watch.

And I'm not one for thinking kindly of people who use rape as entertainment. There are films I won't watch and books I won't read because I feel they are using rape to titillate and arouse and I think it's wrong. But I didn't pick up on that in this episode of Downton.

[bnm]

I nearly didn't watch it because they announced just before it started that it contained a violent and upsetting scene. Told DH in disbelief that they would do this to Downton Abbey and as it progressed I thought they must have been mistaken but then as she was going down below I thought oh no here it comes. Continued watching and was glad it was over quickly but must say that because it was Downton Abbey it hit me really hard and then speaking to others on Monday heard they were all feeling the same and one friend switched off. I thought for affect it was done really well but that's not what I watch Downton Abbey for. If I want violence, shock and bad language I wouldn't be watching Downton Abbey. Why couldn't they leave well alone? I watch it for the costumes the gentility the manners the gentle wind down it gives. Having said that I nearly didn't come back to it because they had to kill off Mary's DH, maybe it's time to stop. I know how women were treated how women were made to feel about their honour and little has changed but it's not why I watch Downton.

[SirChenjin]

Are you watching the same Downton I'm watching - the horror or WW1, a woman dying a horrible death in childbirth, murder, a fatal car crash, death after Doing the Deed etc etc? A gentle wind down Downton aint!