To not let extremists into primary schools

[BombayBadonkadonks]

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/parents-outrage-extremist-religious-cult-2254926

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/school-bosses-kick-out-extremist-225779

A friend's DCs go to this school and she is horrified about this and the books they received this week.

Surely telling kiddies that if they don't believe in God only bad things will happen and that 'homosexuality is a sin' is wrong.

[Purplerunner]

Friday16 - I think the comments about the role of the Parent Council means going forward, how it can have a stronger role in the school, be more involved in decisions like who is on the Chaplaincy team.

I agree if the HT had straight away said, oops my mistake, please return the books, then that would have ended the matter. It was the letter implying that non- religious parents were being a bit narrow minded in returning them that sealed her fate. A shame when she was not far off retirement.

Love your name btw 50shades!

[50shadesofmeh]

Ha thanks purplerunner just wondering if you are anyone I know or if I've outed myself on here.

[Tabby1963]

It is completely irrelevant how nice, pleasant, wonderful, fabulous or whatever the headteacher was.

She executed extremely poor judgement and put pupils at risk when she invited this organisation into her school.

She should never have the opportunity to do this again.

Finally, there is no shortage of qualified first-class headteachers who would be able to lead this school successfully if they were given the chance (which they will be now).

[Tabby1963]

Can I just add, at my school all people who volunteer to work as parent helpers are just that, parents or grandparents. They are not volunteer 'classroom assistants'. They are all CRB checked before hand.

All vacancies for Classroom Assistants/Support for Learning Assistants are advertised through the Council website. Every applicant will apply the same way, with a short list for interview.

This business has made me so cross :(.

[50shadesofmeh]

I know it's irrelevant and I'm not surprised they were ' redeployed' its a complete mess. But having a child that went to the school it's relevant to mention how well the woman normally did her job and how good she was at it.

[friday16]

But having a child that went to the school it's relevant to mention how well the woman normally did her job and how good she was at it.

I can see it from the LEA's perspective, though. A well-organised and motivated group of entryists convinced her of their bona fides to the point that they were operating all across the school, and were able to distribute literature without any checks being carried it. As it happens, they were (generally) harmless nutters: it's unlikely that beyond angering some parents and causing some tense conversations in some houses much long-, or even short-term harm was done. Stupid, offensive and lacking in care and insight, but ultimately harmless.

However, as tabby alludes, this happened "around the side" of normal process. How many schools have people working in classrooms who are neither (a) parents/grandparents nor (b) employees who have been through a complete application, interview and references process? Even if these entryists had CRB checks (which, for foreign citizens, are close to meaningless), why did no-one ask "why are these people volunteering at this school?"

Parents and grandparents have an obvious motivation and link to the school; employees are interviewed and "why do you want this job?" is a pretty straightforward question, and being paid is a pretty clear motive. Why were these people (eight of them, it would appear) offering to work, for free, at a primary school? You don't have to be paranoid who sees abusers behind every tree to think that a headmistress sufficiently gullible to allow that to happen wouldn't have noticed had they been, say, inviting children back to meetings in their houses which it's important that they don't tell their parents about because they won't understand. It's a safeguarding nightmare. If you turned up at a school, with no connection to it, and said "I want to volunteer in the classrooms, no need to pay me, just being with the children is reward enough", a sane school will want chapter and verse on why you want to do this. That, it would appear, broke down. And it's hard to say "how good she was at it" with a safeguarding disaster like this. CRB checks aren't enough: what also matters is why people are in the classroom.

[ItsaTIARA]

True Friday, but I would dispute the claim that these people are harmless. I'm in the inner city and a lot of the children have been brought up to have their Christianity central to their personal identity. If these guys can convince primary children that YECs is a core part of their faith then they are setting them up for a dreadful relationship with their secondary schools.

[friday16]

It would bean interesting study for an MA, but I have a suspicion that amongst the sort of Christians for whom it's "central to their personal identity", there's no shortage of YECs already, without outside intervention. But yes, I take your general point, had they succeeded in developing the "real Christians this like this" narrative then it might cause a lot of trouble downstream, and I was wrong to say "harmless".

Not harm in a safeguarding sense, however. Which is a real concern when you have eight "volunteers" working together with the head being very naive about their activities.

[PedantMarina]

Excellent post, friday, esp after you clarified about the "harmless" aspect.

Most of us have little tolerance for this religious intolerance, but it might be worth reinforcing, in so few words, what Dawkins put so perfectly: that forcing a child to believe [xx religious principle] is tantamount to child abuse.

It's one thing to promote values that happen to align with most [mainstream] sects of Christianity (or, indeed most of the other majors and minors): Be good to each other, place in community, honour family, etc.

But it's another to say to a child "if you don't believe XX or YY [myth or bigoted opinion] you will GO TO HELL, and your parents are already going to hell for not doing this themselves...".

Well, anybody, really, but definitely a child. Definitely DEFINITELY a primary-age (or lower) child. They are too young to have developed the critical thinking that will enable them to take such teachings at a level they can cope with. Or, maybe more precisely, young children have untrained but BRILLIANT critical thinking - they love to question things: to stop them in their tracks for the sake of A.N.Cult's Mythical Omni-spanker, is cruel. I honestly akin such mind control to porn or drugs.

[50shadesofmeh]

I fully agree Marina and Friday, before it broke in the media I read the books for myself and I was furious at the content and ready to put my own complaint in, I was in disbelief that a school so previously meticulous with safety etc had allowed this to happen.
After I cooled down and saw the media coverage I just felt sorry for what a great error she had made.

[mrscumberbatch]

I have friends with kids at this school and I'm a bit appalled that this has turned into a witch hunt.

This church group arrange out of hours school activities (games/after school clubs etc) and were probably a benefit to the school really as it would have saved them money.

I don't know why this religious group wanted to get involved in schools, whether it is just community support similar to other churches in the area. That is the only thing that I'd question. ( well that and the dubious literature/beliefs )

What is not fair is that people from this religious group are being hunted down in the local area and being treated like peadophiles or similar.

Tensions are high, there is unacceptable things being written about them online. If they thought that they were genuinely helping then it is shameful that people have treated them with such contempt.

The whole thing is a mess and shouldn't have occurred but the punishment doesn't fit the cause.

[PedantMarina]

But they weren't being "genuinely helpful", nor was that their intention. Well, by our standards, anyway. Their version of "helpful" (and their reason for being there - not least according to the blogger from Mexico) was that they felt the local populace wasn't "Christian enough" and that they had to be brought round to the right way of thinking.

PS - Hope I haven't spent so much time typing this that I won't be the first person to point out the fucking irony that any attack against these people is deemed a "witch hunt".

[ToysRLuv]

Just saw a tv news story about it. Appalling.

[mrscumberbatch]

Hahaha good point 'witch hunt'.

Really though, any religious organisation gets involved with the local community to improve it or create more insert religion awareness. Be they Christian, Baptist, Catholic, Muslim, Sikh, Jewish etc. They all mean well.

The fact that these particular people's religion is crackers doesn't really matter to me- religion should only exist in a historical, sociological or theoretical manner in non- denominational schools.

[Ezio]

I have no problem with the teaching of different beliefs, shoving them down peoples throats and stating it as fact, gives me the major arse ache.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Really though, any religious organisation gets involved with the local community to improve it or create more insert religion awareness

Mostly yes - but in the case of this sort of evangelical group their primary motivation - which they believe is a God-given duty - is to convert. Not to 'create awareness'.

[friday16]

"They all mean well."

Really? Should sexist organisations that believe that women are second-class citizens incapable of leadership (ie, all the faiths you list) be encouraged to promote that attitude to girls? If I went into a school and told girls that they were only fit for child-bearing and should leave the thinking to men, I would be chased from the building. Why is that position OK, as something to teach in schools, just because you believe that your imaginary friend agrees?

[mrscumberbatch]

No as i said upthread - I didn't say that anything that these organisations preach should be allowed in schools, just that on the whole they meant well (via their beliefs whether they are misled or not).

So for these people to be vilified for doing what they did when they'd been given free reign by the School Head is unfair.

Many of them have had to take their private websites etc down and have police guard at home because of parents and locals threatening them following this scandal. I don't think that is fair.

The head teacher is to blame for lack of judgement in this case IMHO. But there is a real feeling of mob rule at the moment which I personally think is a bit OTT.

[ImNotJustMum]

This is my old primary school, they always had connections with the local church and would have the minister come to hold assemblies and the odd classes but I didn't know they were now encouraging such an extremist view. It is supposed to be a non-denominational school too.

[Tabby1963]

Mrscucumberpatch I do not require religious groups who promote extremist views to come to my school to "save me money" by providing after school clubs for my pupils, thank you.

The reason that this particular group wanted to "get involved" in primary schools is surely obvious. Targeting young children for indoctrination is a very effective way of brainwashing them to believe any old ridiculous claptrap. It is a proven tactic, and can be very successful, if unchecked.

If these people are now being targeted and "treated like paedophiles", whilst this is unfortunate, they have (like paedophiles) grossly abused the trust of parents and their children by misrepresenting themselves (and their real intentions) at the school. The local community feels violated, betrayed and is very, very angry.

"Tensions are high"? For reasons I have already stated, mrscucumberpatch.

"Punishment doesn't fit the crime"?

What punishment? Two headteachers redeployed; so-called 'voluntary workers' removed from the school; local anger against perpetrators from community who feel betrayed.

[mrscumberbatch]

I don't want to be drawn into an argument about it because we don't all need to agree here.

I just think its odd that given the sheer number of letters that we receive from school/nursery etc that not one communication regarding this was sent out to parents. For that reason I would lay the blame at the foot of the head teachers, not the misguided people who believe that they are providing a service.

The whole thing is awful and should never have happened but noone died here. Yanbu for people to be outraged but is it BU for people to condone violence following it.

[Purplerunner]

Imjust- have you even read the thread? This is just one of 5 religious organisations on the school chaplaincy team and they don't even have a church. The school still attends services twice a year at the West Kirk, same as it always did.

This group has been involved in the school for EIGHT years and the distribution of these books was the first actual attempt to preach/influence the children. So their attempts to "indoctrinate" hadn't exactly been successful so far!

Plus I don't know where the quoted 8 people is coming from. There was the chaplain and 3 missionaries working as classroom assistants as far as I know. So 4 in total.

50shades - you don't need to worry about outing yourself to me as I think you actually are me! We seem to have a very similar line of thinking.

[picklebumplum]

I would say its fundamental Christians, they take everything so literal in that their views are slightly unhinged.

The Christian Bible can be interpreted to say gay marriage is fine because God will love all mankind.

Extremists to me as a word is crazy loons blowing themselves up.

[ImNotJustMum]

Yes I have read the thread purple, where have I said that this particular religious group has a church? I was stating my experience of the school and my opinion, or is that not allowed?

[FeedMeWell]

Purple and 50shades I could be you too. My kids are at this school and while I think allowing the books to be distributed was a mistake it has been blown out of all proportion and there just hasn't been any indoctrination going on. I hope the head teachers will be back soon but fear the vocal minority will get their way.