To not let extremists into primary schools

[BombayBadonkadonks]

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/parents-outrage-extremist-religious-cult-2254926

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/school-bosses-kick-out-extremist-225779

A friend's DCs go to this school and she is horrified about this and the books they received this week.

Surely telling kiddies that if they don't believe in God only bad things will happen and that 'homosexuality is a sin' is wrong.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Purple - thank you for setting the record straight.

[Saffyz]

YANBU

1. "Christians follow the teachings of Jesus which are about being kind to other people, e.g. in the story of the Good Samaritan where someone helped a person from another culture when others walked on by" - fine.
   
   
2. "Christians believe that gay people will go to hell, women must wear hats in church and obey men, only men can teach etc. etc." - not fine, and not true, as these extreme beliefs are NOT representative of most reasonable Christians, they just represent bigots with loud voices.

[HavantGuard]

You're a non violent bigot. Noted.

[Saffyz]

Who was that to, HavantGuard?

[Pinupgirl]

What about the other incidents at this school though purple?-when the junkie got in and was walking around the corridors? or when a child managed to slip out of the school and wasn't missed for quite a while? Huge safe guarding issues imo and if my dcs were at that school I would be questioning the heads role in all these incidents.

[HavantGuard]

Add message | Report | Message poster justanuthermanicmumsday Thu 12-Sep-13 11:05:44

'I think I was misunderstood of course homosexuality exists I don't agree with it if that's an extreme view so be it. I'd like to add I'm not calling for violence against homosexuals either in case that's going through anyone's head.'

[Pinupgirl]

Havent-I don't understand why you are taking exception with that post? Many Christians don't agree with homosexuality. Now you and I may think that they are talking bollocks but we live in a democracy and just is as entitled to her opinion as you and I are to ours.

[HavantGuard]

Of course they're entitled to their opinion. Just as I'm entitled to think they're bigots hiding behind mythology.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Freedom of speech is one thing. Freedom to propagate bigotry and lies to kids - without parental knowledge - is another.

[Purplerunner]

The security issues are a whole other problem pinupgirl!! The gates are now being locked (most of the time) but seeing as the intruder jumped the fence there is no guarantee that it will never happen again. The P1 child wandering unnoticed in the playground is simply unacceptable though.

[friday16]

Unsurprising removal of head(s)

[CoteDAzur]

"Many Christians don't agree with homosexuality"

Homosexuality isn't an argument to agree with or not. It is something that exists. What does agreeing have to do with something that exists?

Do they agree with ants? What would it mean if they didn't agree with zebras?

What you mean to say is that they don't like it, although it is none of their business what consenting adults to in private.

[MaidOfStars]

justanuthermanicmumsday of course homosexuality exists I don't agree with it

To quote an internet phrase: Don't like gay marriage, don't get gay married.

What does the fact that YOU don't "agree" with it have to do with what we teach our children?

[50shadesofmeh]

This is my child's school, I was initially annoyed and I'm really disappointed that the books weren't checked before being distributed and a bit pissed off at the school affiliating with a Christian group when they are allegedly non denominational .
BUT .. I am hugely uncomfortable with the suspension of the two head teachers and the blame being put Solely at their feet. Plenty of people could have flagged it up and question it.
Both the teachers are fantastic and are the making of the school and I'm rather devastated for them.

Oh and for the record East Kilbride isn't full of poverty and deprivation. We have the odd dodgy bit but overall it's a lovely place for families to live.

[friday16]

BUT .. I am hugely uncomfortable with the suspension of the two head teachers and the blame being put Solely at their feet.

Those of us outside the school don't know the full story.

But my gut feel is that the head's response to initial complaints, which was Whilst I appreciate that not every family in our school are practising Christians, I was only too happy to accept this generous gift on your behalf...I hope you will all accept it in the spirit with which it was offered was her death warrant.

Most practicing Christians are not homophobic young-earth creationists, so it ensured that the upset was now even more broad-spectrum as it goes straight to the "in order to be a proper Christian you must think list this" narrative which many Christians find extremely offensive. And her attempt to justify and defend the poor decision shows poor insight. Had she apologised and immediately started to find out what had gone wrong, the whole thing would probably have remained in-house, and she certainly wouldn't have end up suspended. But she instead decided to push on an not admit doing anything wrong. That was not wise.

And I suspect that the LEA will have grave concerns about the entryist aspects of it. It's not just the books, and the governance issues surrounding the arrival of the people from the Church of Christ are probably quite worrisome.

Do you know what's being alluded to when there's mention of the role of the Parent Council also being investigated? Might that, too, have been subject to entryism?

[50shadesofmeh]

I don't know anything about entryism in the parent council as far as I'm concerned it a straightforward parent council and they coped with this brilliantly so far.

It is completely perplexing to me how the content in the books went unseen by the head teacher and how she didn't manage to find out that the Church of Christ were creationists as nearly every parent in the school found out in a 2 second google search , but essentially she is a lovely woman and runs the school fantastically at all other times. that is what is so odd with this .

[50shadesofmeh]

The leader of the church of Christ somehow ended up on the school chaplaincy panel , how and why he was introduced to the school I have no idea.

[friday16]

It is completely perplexing to me how the content in the books went unseen by the head teacher *

She was busy, she trusted the people, she didn't check too carefully. A mistake, no more.

As I say, the problem is that once concern was raised, she didn't either check her facts or admit the mistake, she pushed on and tried to justify the books. That is, I'm afraid, the end of her career. To state that you made a mistake over distributing homophobic and YEC material (I suspect the council are more concerned about the homophobia, even if the tricerotops ridden by men in 1930s safari outfits pulling carts are more amusing) is survivable. To argue that even once you have been given detailed knowledge of the contents you are still happy about the decision is suicidal.

[50shadesofmeh]

I agree Friday

[50shadesofmeh]

She did make a mistake but I'm still upset she was removed , the school will suffer as a result in my opinion :-/

[ShadeofViolet]

Whenever the subject of 'agreeing' with Gay Marriage comes up, I always want to quote this.

Subway analogy

[friday16]

If we're poking fun at the fundies, this.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Its a huge shame that two otherwise good HTs have fallen foul of these people and thereby the school will suffer. Hopefully they'll find new positions (they've not been sacked as such but 'redeployed' and for sure will never make that mistake again.

'It is completely perplexing to me how the content in the books went unseen by the head teacher' - perhaps the 'church' people weren't as transparent as they should have been. Some people who believe they are on the religious moral highground can be curiously lacking in basic ethics.

[50shadesofmeh]

That's true Errol, I'm sure they are all nice people but they may have hidden their agenda from the HT and she just took them at face value.

[friday16]

I'm sure they are all nice people but they may have hidden their agenda from the HT and she just took them at face value.

That all explains how the books went out in the first place. It doesn't explain the head's failure of insight in then attempting to defend the decision even once the books had gone out. That wasn't about the entryists. That was about the parents, stood in front of her, holding books that she could inspect page by page. Even in that situation, she argued that she was right to have sent the books out. That is what got her suspended, I suspect.

Had, when the first complaints arose, she looked at the books, thought whatever primary teachers think instead of "oh fuck", got her act assembled and written a contrite note admitting that a mistake had been made, she'd still be in post. There'd be a dispute about the governance that led up to the books being distributed, and the LEA would probably be involved, but she'd be in post. It's the lack of insight in attempting to argue, essentially, that even having seen the content in more detail she still thinks that the books were OK that shows that either (a) she simply doesn't understand the issue or (b) she is unable to separate the interests of the school from the interests of the entryists. Either is, frankly, career ending.