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AIBU?

To feel really let down by dd's school

119 replies

emsiewill · 03/09/2013 13:33

Dd had to put in her potential A Level options back in July. Obviously the school can't finalise the timetable until after GCSE results, but they try and get an idea and start thinking about possible clashes etc.

Dd wants to do French & Maths (as well as 2 others). They were put in the same "column" and therefore can't both be taken. As far as we knew in July when the options columns came out, she was the only student wanting to do these 2 subjects.

I contacted the school at the time, as they advised parents to do if there were any problems. I have said all along that I understand that they cannot change the whole timetable to accommodate one student, and I don't expect them to do that. What I hoped they would do would be make some suggestions as to how we could work round this - would distance learning work for one of the subjects? Can she do one of them in another local school? Would they be able to fit her in outside the curriculum? I am not an expert in education, and don't know what is possible or doable.

Dd is quite sure that she wants to study both subjects at Uni, so really doesn't want to have to choose between them.

The first person I spoke to (head of upper school) was basically clueless and the conversation ended with him saying "I don't really know what to suggest".

I therefore emailed the head teacher, went through the whole explanation again and said I was disappointed that the school didn't seem able to help us deal with this issue. He emailed back saying he was sorry I was upset about the options, and that they can't always cater to every student. He thought there may be some "slack" in the French department for dd to do it outside normal lesson times, but they couldn't say for sure until the results came out, and he would get one of the deputy head teachers to call me in the meantime. No phone call was forthcoming.

GCSE results day comes round, as expected dd does very well, including A* in Maths & French (amongst others). I try to talk to the deputy head about the subject clash, but she basically brushed me off, telling me that we should focus on what dd wants to do in 2 years, it's not just about A level choices. I tried to explain that dd wants to do these 2 subjects in 2 years' time, but she just would not engage. I didn't want to spoil dd's day of celebration by getting into an argument so didn't take it further.

Dd went back to school yesterday. They said they may be able to accommodate Maths & French for her if there was only one overlapping lesson (ie she could go to all 4 Maths lessons a week, and 3 out of 4 of the French ones). They said we would have to get a tutor as well though to ensure she kept up with the French. They pressed dd quite hard to say which of the 2 subjects she would choose if she had to, but she was clear that she wants to do both.

Today, she has been told that actually, it's not going to be possible and therefore we will have to find out about her doing one of them outside school. No offer of assistance with this, no pointers, nothing. DH has called the school (I'm in work -supposedly!- he's got a day off) and is awaiting a call back from the head of sixth form.

There is a part-time A level maths course (1 evening per week) starting tonight at a local HE college. I am trying to get through to them as I type.

I feel very angry that the school wouldn't take us seriously back in July and have now put us in the position where we have no time to get something else sorted. I think they thought we would just give up on the idea.

Dd is one of the star pupils in the school - never given them a moment's trouble, won prizes every year, but they don't seem to want to help her achieve her potential.

As I say, I know they can't move everything around just for her. But surely they should give us more help in trying to find some alternative solutions?

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emsiewill · 03/09/2013 15:20

Further Maths is done outside the curriculum at her school, and from what I can tell, it's only for exceptional students who "need" it. We haven't even gone down that path yet. It's not offered as a "normal" A level option. We are also aware of STEP.

In no way did they "repeatedly" tell me it wasn't going to work, they kept telling me to wait til September. I repeatedly told them I didn't expect them to make an exception for dd, nor did I expect them to change their timetables to suit one pupil. That I have said in emails, over the telephone and in person. All I asked for was help with finding other options for her. And if that makes me annoying and too persistent, well tough. She's my dd, and I want her to have the best chance she can at achieving her ambitions.

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Sirzy · 03/09/2013 15:23

But how are they supposed to find other options? they have made it clear (since before the schools finished) what options they could provide. It isn't up to them to source alternatives that is up to you and your daughter.

I don't understand why you didn't contact other places as soon as the problem was identified if doing both is so important?

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emsiewill · 03/09/2013 15:28

As I have said, I just hoped they would come up with alternative solutions or suggestions that may not even involve the school, but related more to the wider education arena. I thought they were the experts in that, whereas I am not.

Foolishly I thought that as they weren't doing that it was because they were going to sort it out. They never once told me it wouldn't work. They said they really wanted to keep dd as a pupil.

Of course, I have learnt my lesson. I am an idiot. And dd will suffer for that. Sad

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Beastofburden · 03/09/2013 15:29

emsie I seriously doubt this is a school that is qualified to get your DD into UCL to do maths, in that case. Seriously, a maths degree at that kind of Uni they are going to want to see that she is a natural at it- which means showing you can make the jump from bog standard A level maths (which loads of non-mathematical types do) to Further Maths- which is kind of unteachable and shows you can "think maths" IYSWIM. They really ought to know that and be advising you that. (can you tell I work at a Uni?)

Its a bit late, I know- but is there a school that specialises in maths and science locally?

French would be easier to do herself if she is gifted at it, and you can send her abroad for the holidays.

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MortifiedAdams · 03/09/2013 16:07

I am astounded that French and MAths were in the same.column!

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coco27 · 03/09/2013 16:25

I am a bit surprised.At my DCs school ,maths is far and away the most popular AS level subject and is available in every column

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WynkenBlynkenandNod · 03/09/2013 16:36

Just been through this with a friend's DD who decided after her results she wanted to do two that were in the same block. School's proposal was to do half the lessons for one and half of the other each week. They looked at doing something out if school.

I encouraged them to ring around but it was difficult last week getting through apparently. However they spoke to who they needed to yesterday at one of the other schools. Interview today, she starts tomorrow and is delighted as had always wanted to go there and didn't get in a few years ago. Get on the phone and find out where else can take her.

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JessieMcJessie · 03/09/2013 16:58

www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/undergraduate-study/degrees/ubsmatwlan05

From this it appears that she will need Further Maths, asbeastofburden suggests, but not necessarily an A level in French. Could she go to a Sixth form that will teach her Further Maths, and keep up the French on school holidays/ gap year?

For what it's worth, I did French at University as it was the language I was best at but in retrospect I wish I had been braver and done something like Mandarin (you could start from scratch). This course seems to allow that as long as you have a GCSE in a language.

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emsiewill · 03/09/2013 17:09

Well something's going to have to give, that's clear.

Dd and dh have been to the HE college to see about the Maths. They have to go back later to see the actual tutor. They don't know yet whether they are even offering the course, as it depends how many people turn up Confused. But I guess that means she will get on it if they run it.


Hopefully even if she isn't doing Maths through school, they will still help her in school with Further Maths, although one will be in English and one in Welsh, which might prove challenging...

She is adamant that she doesn't want to change schools altogether. I have told her something will have to give...but there's no point forcing her.

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smokinaces · 03/09/2013 17:11

I only studied maths to gcse, and have spent the last year doing year one maths degree level through the ou, more or less self taught. I would say if she is bright and able, the maths a level at an evening class is more than achieveable. It IS a leap from gcse to a level, but entirely possible. So she could do three a levels at school and one at evening class. In fact, my nephew was in same position as this last year.

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nennypops · 03/09/2013 17:14

Whether she wants to change schools or not, I must say I'd be looking seriously at telling the current school that that is what you're thinking of. It could make them decide to try a bit harder to keep her.

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lljkk · 03/09/2013 17:16

So sorry to read all this.
It's part of why I think UK schools narrow options too early, too.

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JessieMcJessie · 03/09/2013 17:19

If she's bilingual but will be challenged by doing Further Maths in Welsh, she might want to rethink the whole Maths and Modern languages idea...

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Merrow · 03/09/2013 17:24

My Maths and English clashed at school, and I ended up doing Maths largely self-taught with once a fortnight tutoring. Since the books I had all included answers it worked out pretty well as the tutoring could just focus on the areas I was having trouble with, and let me get on with the rest. Is there a maths teacher she likes at the school? You could contact them and see if they are available for tutoring.

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whois · 03/09/2013 17:27

The situation, and the school sound shit.

I would really recommend moving to a different sixth form. She really does need to do further maths if she wants to study it at uni!

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JessieMcJessie · 03/09/2013 17:35

whois according to Wikipedia the only Universities that insist on Further Maths are Warwick, Cambridge and UCL (the OP's DD's chosen university.) There appears to be an understanding that not all schools can teach it. However I imagine that having done it might give an applicant an edge in applying to a uni that doesn't consider it compulsory.

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noblegiraffe · 03/09/2013 18:04

Yes, most universities don't include further maths on their requirements, because it's not offered everywhere at sixth form. However, it would be massively advantageous, not just when applying for Uni, but for actually coping with the first year courses.

Definitely find another sixth form, one that offers maths and further maths and French. I'd ditch the Chemistry and keep the Physics as that goes well with the maths.

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Osmiornica · 03/09/2013 20:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beastofburden · 03/09/2013 20:07

Not everyone insists on further maths, but if you are applying to a competitive Uni like UCL it's not about getting the minimum. All the competition will do further maths.

And as other posters have said, as it happens UCL do require it anyway.

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Beastofburden · 03/09/2013 20:16

Poor you, emsie. Hugs. This is very difficult for you. If she is determined to stay at that school then I think she will end up on a different course at a different Uni. That might not be so bad.

Take a llok at the course requirements. For maths with modern languages at UCL the three year course requires A* in both maths and further maths plus another A grade; or, you can just do maths if you do STEP and get a 1.

You don't actually need A level in the language. You only need grade C at GCSE. Looking at the course, it is a pretty basic level in the modern language, and it is essentially about maths. S she should definitely not do French a level.

But I would question whether she really understands this course if she thinks she has to get an a level in French. She may be disappointed when she gets there, as it is clearly pretty basic on the language side.

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IwishIwasmoreorganised · 03/09/2013 20:17

Where abouts are you OP? What options do you have in the way of FE colleges?

Is French taught through the medium of Wlesh? Which would be easier to switch at the moment, French or maths to be taught in English?

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Beastofburden · 03/09/2013 20:18
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noblegiraffe · 03/09/2013 20:21

I read it as you need As in both maths and further maths, or an A in one of them and an A in the other if you offer the STEP paper. You must have further maths.

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Beastofburden · 03/09/2013 20:28

it says

Mathematics and Further Mathematics required at A, or one of Mathematics or Further Mathematics at A if STEP or AEA offered.

Which I read as meaning there is the option to substitute step for further maths. But a phone call to UCL admissions would clarify. Clearly, though, a good competitive entry will include further maths. To not enough just to do the minimum kit.

Bt I can't find any option to do just maths and French, this degree is maths plus two or more other languages at a fairly basic level.. The is nothing under French, or modern languages...

OP has your daughter even really checked out this course? You may be suffering for no reason here.

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noblegiraffe · 03/09/2013 20:38

No, you can't do one of maths or further maths, you can only do further maths if you do maths.

What it means is
You must do maths and further maths and get:

AAA with both stars in maths and further maths
Or
A*AA with the star in maths or further maths, and you also offer the STEP.

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