To find people say X public School is OK because

[NoComet]

It gets DCs into Oxbridge and RG universities, a daft justification for choosing a school that costs £15,000 plus a year.

We have a local secondary (not even a true comp as there is some creaming off of bright DC by Grammar schools) that is in Special Measures that has just got two pupils in to Oxbridge.

And this is hardly news, bog standard state secondaries and sixform collages all over the country send DCs to Oxbridge and RG Universities every year.

My very ordinary Welsh Comp sent someone in the year above me to study medicine at Oxford, there were others at prestigious med schools and, now, RG uni's me included.

Yes, private schools are very nice, yes DC avoid some DCs with a bad attitude to education, Yes DC get good sports facilities and yes DC may study a wider range of subjects, esp. MFL.

But in the end your DC will, quite likely end up at exactly the same uni, doing the same course, just with poorer parents!

[wordfactory]

Moving to state at sixth form won't provide any real advantage if the GCSEs were gained at a good private school.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

Oh I see, re bus. I still maintain it's very unusual, whereas I would be amazed if any academic private school didn't run such a scheme.

FE colleges step away from the SFC label because they are often catering for those returning to ft education as well as those going straight from school, and/or for those put off by a perceived academic focus. Many of them are extremely good. I used to work at one that got A Level students into RG/Oxbridge and mature students into full time employment in skilled trades, every year.

[Beastofburden]

Talk, I was just going on what their websites said

[sheridand]

Just give me 15 years. 15 years where schooling is truly across the board and one size fits all. Imagine a system where everyone attends the same schools, and that by geographical basis. Within 15-20 years you'd have a system that would be next to none.

I had in my class of a "sink school" the daughter of a European ambassador. He chose the comp way, and his daughter did excellently. What is more, she collaborated with others, and showed them what was possible.

I have a dream.... and it kind of looks like this:

Please watch it, it's amazing.

With no public/ comp/grammar but one system that helps ALL children, instead of just those who can afford private, or afford to move, or afford to pay for 11+ tutoring. I want to support those parents who say, yes, I AM part of a whole, and so are my children.

[Talkinpeace]

sheridand
Please remember that one of the reasons the UK public schools get away with charging so much and being so picky is that they are happy to take the children of the rich from countries that ban private schools (such as China, North Korea, Russia, Finland etc)

And if you work on a strictly area basis you may end up with the "superzip" problem they have in parts of the USA where house prices around good schools are even more distorted than they are already in the UK.

Only on Mumsnet are boarding and fee paying schools other than an irrelevance to most people.
Selective state schools are a much more poisonous issue and should be abolished today.

[sheridand]

I agree! And so should the housing lottery that allows people to buy into the key areas. Please do take a look at the link I posted, the real issue is the moribund state of the ideology of our schooling.

If we just had the balls to do it..... it would take mere years, and I think only a few, for schools to be all encompassing. I take on board zip coding, but that wouold only be true if the boundaries allowed it. If we were strict, not so. And bear in mind, much of this is urban centric. I would wager, being rural, that ALL rural schools would bump up levels were it not for some pupils being creamed off for selectives / private schools with selective feeders.

[Talkinpeace]

sheridand
I've seen lots of Sir Ken Robinson's talks and as inspirational as they are, he has spent too long only in the company of people as bright as him.

housing lottery that allows people to buy into the key areas
how would one ever deal with that?
and how could you change boundaries to stop it - have you seen the gerrymandering of school districts in the USA?
ALL rural schools would bump up levels were it not for some pupils being creamed off for selectives / private schools with selective feeders
Sorry but I have to utterly disagree with you there.
Look at the Isle of Wight schools as a microcosm of your plan.
Its not good is it.

Very few children go to private schools in the big scheme of things.
If a comp is good it tends to stay good - if there is another school in the area to keep it on its toes.
Where there is no competition, laurel resting kicks in.

As I say, selective state funded schools (by academic, religious or any other metric) are the real problem.

[RoastedCouchPotatoes]

My country doesn't allow ANY private schools. Where we are moving to, we will have crap secondary (and primary) schools. Unfortunately, a lot of schooling is decided by money. What area you live in will almost certainly decide the results of your comprehensive. There are many exceptions, but the fact is, the best schools are often in wealthy areas, or at least take children from wealthy areas (by 'best', I don't mean the school, but the results). Private is a more extreme form of that. As we can't afford either, we have a choice between a super selective and a failing comp, you have no choice t to tuition your child for the superselective and even a few bond books won't see you through, so that's out for a lot of people. Your finances WILL affect where your child goes to school, private schools are an extension of this. Personally, if I could afford a private school which was achieving better results (whether through selection processes or amazing teaching, or both, or something else) then I would definitely do it, because the option is available.

[RoastedCouchPotatoes]

My home country, not current one, sorry.

[Talkinpeace]

Roasted
But if the superselective was not there, those resources and bright pupils and motivated teachers would be spread among the other schools and they would have resources for bright kids.

[holidaybug]

I send my DC to private school because (a) it is the best school in the area and (b) I want to send them to the best school to give them the best chance in life. If the best school happened to be a state school, I would have tried to get them into the state school, but it wasn't so I didn't.

[Tinlegs]

I think one thing (other than money / facilities) that makes independent schools do well is that they are ambitious for all their pupils. It is hard to keep your focus on the best possible results when, for some pupils, just sitting still is a result. Being surrounded by bright and motivated pupils has an effect on a child, just as being surrounded by the disaffected will cause problems.

I have taught in both. I always felt that for the very bright, both systems would probably work out OK. What the independent schools do really, really well is getting the next ones down, those closer to average, to perform really, really well too.

I taught in a top London Public School. One of my A Level sets got all As. I was not surprised and felt it had little to do with me; anyone could teach those pupils, as long as they had their respect. The results that really take sweat, effort and dedication are those who are C/D and, by putting in the hours and giving them extra support, they get an A.

My school in London, because of their peers, our work ethic, our expectations, did very well. My existing school does very well by pupils. But many of them are not going to University, whoever and wherever they are taught. They too need the best possible chance. This is where time and resources will be of direct benefit to the individual and, ultimately, the nation,.

[maraisfrance]

Fair point, luv. I send my lad to private/independent school because I like the school, I like the experience and education the school offers, I hope my boy will have a better time of it than I did at a crappy, clapped out state grammar, and that it will get him to 18 and decisions about what happens next in better shape than I was. (Incidentally, I passed everything in sight, and went to Cambridge). So I'm not paying for Oxbridge, why would I?

[Talkinpeace]

Tinlegs
You are right about middling kids - the non selective private round here gets lots of those who would be lower set 2 at the comps and nudges and pushes them till they get grades equivalent to lower set 1.
Sadly once the nudging stops, so does their progress - particularly at University.
But the sense of entitlement and connections that Private school brings protects them. Sadly.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

And yet state schools are continually berated for focussing all their attention on the middling kids, to get them to C not D, thus failing the bright and the least able!

When they're not being accused of focussing only on the least bright and worst behaved, to everyone else's detriment.

Very odd.

[Talkinpeace]

TheOriginalSteamingNit
And yet state schools are continually berated
no need to add any more, those words say it all!

[MrsAMerrick]

The bottom line is that most people send their DCs to private schools because, at heart, they are snobs. They only want their DCs to mix with PLUs. (waits to get flamed)
If there were no private schools, education - whilst not perfect - would be more of an even playing field for all children.

[holidaybug]

What a load of tosh MrsAMerrick

[HorryIsUpduffed]

That's not the only reason, MrsAMerrick, but I agree it does happen.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Well, some do: they've openly said so on MN! Others cite lots of other reasons, to be fair. I just don't find any of them valid

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Sunny, can they make 4.2 year olds start school now? Lots of parents with summer born children just used to wait until after Christmas or Easter when mine were in reception.

[holidaybug]

Well, most don't. Private school education is too expensive for 'most' people to pay for it simply because they are snobs.

[Taz1212]

I have one child in a private school and one in a state school (hopefully to follow her brother in 3 years). I'm in Scotland and our local high school has effectively been pegged as a vocational school. The percentage of students who achieve enough Highers to even attend university is under 7%. In 2010 a working group set up by the council decided to slash the number of Advanced Highers on offer because it was not cost effective to run them for 3-4 students each year. My DS wants to be a vet - which obviously will likely change but to make a point... He can't attend our local high school and go on to be a vet or doctor or anything science related because the school does not offer the required Advance Highers. It's also one of the schools that is going to limit course choice in S4 to 5 courses compared to 8 at his private school.

We are very very fortunate to be able to afford private schooling for both of our children. If we had a school that catered equally to those with university aspirations as well as vocational ones we may not have made the choice we did. However, I want my DC to have an education similar to my own and that simply won't happen at our local state school!

[holidaybug]

And if there were no private schools, then the scarcity of state school places would only become worse.