To find people say X public School is OK because

[NoComet]

It gets DCs into Oxbridge and RG universities, a daft justification for choosing a school that costs £15,000 plus a year.

We have a local secondary (not even a true comp as there is some creaming off of bright DC by Grammar schools) that is in Special Measures that has just got two pupils in to Oxbridge.

And this is hardly news, bog standard state secondaries and sixform collages all over the country send DCs to Oxbridge and RG Universities every year.

My very ordinary Welsh Comp sent someone in the year above me to study medicine at Oxford, there were others at prestigious med schools and, now, RG uni's me included.

Yes, private schools are very nice, yes DC avoid some DCs with a bad attitude to education, Yes DC get good sports facilities and yes DC may study a wider range of subjects, esp. MFL.

But in the end your DC will, quite likely end up at exactly the same uni, doing the same course, just with poorer parents!

[Abra1d]

mignonette not disappointed, but a bit envious!

[crumpet]

My personal experience of the 4 schools I attended between the ages of 11-18 (two private and 2 state) is that although I was reasonably bright the 2 state schools allowed me to coast along whilst each of the private schools had higher expectations of me which I rose to, and consequently performed better at.

[Talkinpeace]

Beastofburden
Many, many students have absolutely no interest in academic subjects.
Why should they be shoehorned into them?
www.sparsholt.ac.uk/

This course
www.southampton-city.ac.uk/SchoolLeaver/course_view.asp?id=2069&area=school
has utterly excellent employment prospects and companies queuing up to hire the kids when they complete it.

Do Astronomy graduates?
Or History?
Or philosophy?

[crumpet]

I was the kind of child who needed a kick in the backside...

[Beastofburden]

talk- But we agree! this is a FE college and as I said above, they offer true vocation training with a professional edge. They do it far better than studying a vague A level at school. DD is doing childcare NVQ Level 3 at our FE college and it is superb. The links with employers and the quality of work experience make these courses second to none.

I was talking about people doing A levels in soft subjects, which seem to me to be dangerous. They are neither the kind of high quality privision you are talking about, nor are they subjects that are useful for Uni entrance.

[SoupDragon]

Oh good. A private school bashing thread.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

I agree the OP is a little bit bashy, but actually if you read the posts SoupDragon I think they are quite thoughtful.

[AKAK81]

A private education can certainly have other advantages. I've found it helps open doors both professionally and socially in my town as a lot of the more successful people went to the same school so the old boys' network is alive and well.

[mignonette]

Abra That was bitchy of me writing that about you being 'disappointed'. I'm sorry.

Yes we are fortunate I guess although knowing a lot of the teachers well, I know the price they pay for such excellence. They work so hard and are very driven by the head teachers who are under their own set of pressures.

[Talkinpeace]

Soupdragon
Not bashing Private schools, just clarifying that the perceived advantages may only apply to a small segment of the population - even if funding were not an issue.

Beastofburden
Sparsholt and Southampton City specialise. Because Peter Symonds and Barton Peverill also do : on academic kids.

I find it sad that tweps like Gove slag off colleges for not getting into RG - when places like Sparsholt were never trying to.

I also find it sad that people who manage to earn large amounts of money to pay private school fees have such a weak grasp of statistics that they cannot see that DCs school getting 4 or 5 kids on to Oxbridge out of a cohort of 300 is actually above expectation.

[burberryqueen]

yes well a lot of people are over-educated and under-clever tbh

[Beastofburden]

Talk- confused now, dont we agree? i thought we did?

Quite agree that getting kids into RG Unis is not what most FE Colleges aim for and there is no reason at all to evaluate them on something that is not their main focus. I would be evaluating FE colleges on employment record- which would show up the excellence of your example.

[Abra1d]

mignonette :)

Very impressive schools. Lucky pupils.

[blueemerald]

I've just googled my old public school and this year they got 13 into Oxford, 15 into Cambridge and 86 into other Russell Group universities.

So 114 into Russell Group Universities altogether. 3 went to Art School and 2 to American universities.

The results are not comparable as the cohorts are not comparable.

[elastamum]

My DC's public school take children non selectively from age 4 into their junior school and ALL of them who want to stay on go into the secondary school. They sit common entrance at 13 but I have never heard of anyone from the prep failing it. They have 6 levels of ability sets in maths and english. Not everyone goes to oxbridge or RG, but they are encouraged to find the right university for them and most get in where they apply.

Having observed my DS consistently upping his grades in secondary I think the key positives are good teaching with good facilities - particularly in science - a strong work / achievment ethos throughout school and 2 hours homework every night done at school with access to tutors. My DS leaves for school at 7.30am and finishes at 9pm. He gets to do a lot of activities, but he also studies hard. EVERYONE always does their homework.

I think that is the key. Everyone studies. Every night. If you have a DC who is academically minded and does 2 hours extra study most nights in term time with access to a tutor if they need it, they will probably get great results in the state system as well.

[mignonette]

And probably quite unusual too but we live in a pretty naice area although it does have a lot of poverty that the town council does a good job of pretending does not exist mitigating.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

Without going to the minor public school I went to, I could not have taken the range of subjects and extracurricular activities I did. And it was that breadth that got me my university place.

We turned down the "sixty per year to Oxbridge" state sixth form college in favour of the "only me in my year to Oxbridge" public school because it was more likely to get me to Oxbridge.

Public schools can offer subjects to very small cohorts - I was the only person in my year sitting one of my subjects, a friend was the only one sitting his, and state schools simply can't/won't justify that kind of ratio.

They also have smaller classes - one of my subjects was split into two sets because it was considered intolerable to have ten in an A-Level class; my contemporaries at university had been in classes of 30+.

That kind of thing makes an awful lot of difference to borderline pupils.

There's also the question of expectation. The staff are used to Oxbridge application processes, have contact with former pupils at Oxbridge who can help, and even just the fact that Oxbridge is an automatic consideration for bright pupils is a help. That culture does get them on.

[LadyBryan]

We have decent local schools and an excellent private. We chose the school that was best for our daughter. Had that been the state she would have gone there.

As it is, it was the private and the opportunities, class size and emotional care and education are second to none.

And whatever she does when she's 18 I will never regret doing the best thing by her when she's younger

[Talkinpeace]

Beastofburden
Why are you calling them FE colleges?
They are 6th form colleges.
Schools round here stop at 16 : so ALL kids go to college.
And luckily each of the 6th forms has specialised up to a point.
Horry
But places like Peter Symonds send a bus load to Oxbridge every year : it has dedicated staff for Oxbridge and overseas universities.

[LadyBryan]

As a statistic for last year. Every child in top class took a number of exams to other private secondaries.

There was a pass rate of 100%, with each child getting a place at each school they tried for. Well over 2/3rds were scholarship level.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

Talkinpeace - that bus is the exception. I'd hazard a guess there is one very keen member of staff behind it.

And there is a difference between a SFC and a FEC - the former is largely academic and the latter also offers pure vocational subjects like construction, travel & tourism, hospitality & catering, etc. Generally you could take A Levels at either, but the focus would be quite different. Your area will determine what you have access to. Frinstance, where I grew up there was one of each, but you often needed straight As at GCSE to get into the SFC.

[Viviennemary]

Comprehensives do get pupils into Oxbridge. But if people opt for private school that's up to them. I certainly would have considered it if I could have afforded it.

[Talkinpeace]

Horry
You misunderstand me. There are staff employed to be Oxbridge liaison
www.psc.ac.uk/support/careers/oxbridge.php
and PSC is not unique - its just the one I've been to on an open evening.

And the snobbery at the difference between SFC and FEC is what I find offensive.
All of the colleges around here cater for 6th form students. Therefore they are 6th form colleges. END OF.

[wordfactory]

Her's the thing OP.

It may be that either of my DC would do 'as well' in state school. If by that you mean their net of exam results when they leave.

Who can say?

Frankly, I don't really care.

What I'm bothered about is the journey. I want it tailor made. I want it to be the most suitable I can lay my hands on.

As for the money, again who cares? We earn it, we spend it. Why worry ?

[racingheart]

I'm not sure the pupils who move to state schools at 16 do it to get into unis. Most unis take into account schooling from pre GCSE. A lot swap because their parents have run out of money and figure their children now have a good work ethic and are well trained in how to structure work and in exam technique, so they can do well wherever they are.