OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

[Utterlyastoundedmum]

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

Our head teacher always used to authorise up to 5 days holiday per year because he said that he understood the difficulties families face in terms of cost etc. However, new legislation means that he is no longer allowed to do this. I am a teacher so my dd will never have a term time holiday because I cant, however, I do feel sorry for families who will be fined for pre-booked holidays.

This annoys me as dd has done little but watch DVDs the last week. It also is contradictory to the policy of allowing schools to set their own holiday times which could mean people with kids in different schools never being able to go away in half term. It also belies the fact that parents need to cooperate with other people in their workplaces. I'm all for education but this is draconian.

And it is unworkable to expect doctors in the vastly overstretched NHS to certificate endless kids off sick

I think it's ridiculous and feel that it should be up to both parents and head teacher discretion whether a leave of absence is warranted.

One size fits all approaches rarely work in reality ime.

All those posters saying they agree with fines and that holidays should only be taken during term time, so you either have the money required to take an overpriced break in August or you don't go on holiday at all?

What about if parents can't always take their holiday leave from work in August for example? Is it really crime of the century to take their leave in September and children have a week out from school then?

This is really where it should be up to discretion of headteacher and parents imo. If a child is doing well at school, won't fall behind, won't miss anything crucial like exams [or something that the parents could do a bit of extra home tutoring around] then what actually is the issue?

Like a previous poster I also have all my family in Australia. My father last saw DS1 when he was one year old nearly four years ago and has never met DS2.

Father recently informed me that he has been given the rare opportunity to travel to Europe via an association he belongs to in Aus.
He will be in France and Belgium in November, within term time. DS1 starts reception year in September.

It may not be possible for Father to travel to UK but he will try... however if I have to take DS1 to see his Grandfather for a week I jolly well will do so, fine or no fine.

I do believe that travelling is an important educational experience, it is a life skill that incorporates different forms of transport, languages, culture, navigation, understanding of geography, etc...

I think this blanket rule of unauthorised absences and fines is outrageous and draconian. And frankly also possibly discriminatory to people of other cultures... not thinking of my situation now but is it possible that some children may have important cultural events to attend in their country or origin which would not necessarily fall within term time here? What then?

Imo parents should have responsibilities and rights in regards to the education of their own DC and this unauthorised absence malarkey smacks of nanny state to me.

For the "holidays are educational" argument to hold you must be arguing that they are AT LEAST as educational as what the children would be doing at school. Are all holidays equally valid? Would a package deal to Magalouf be acceptable? Or are you really suggesting schools should be saying "oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realise you we're middle class! Have our blessing!"?

I am just flabbergasted that so many people seem to think it is some kind of human right to have a holiday!!!!

This is long overdue. Many parents would like to take advantage of cheaper holidays but they stick to the 'rules' and consequently spend two weeks in a tent or have no holiday at all.

Educational may not be the right word but cultural definitely is.

And that aside, even if all you are doing all week is dossing round by the swimming pool reading books, all kids have the right to have some relaxation/quality time with their family. Or is that something that only the richest amongst us deserve?

School. The most important thing in the world, ever. For all children. All the time, barring nothing except, possibly, an educationally weighted wedding.

At times like this I'm glad I HE one of mine, at least.

And I don't understand why posters like Tinpin are so overjoyed by this. How has it been affecting you, personally, if other families have holidays out of term time?! I really wonder about some people...

I'd love to see them enforce it without previous attendance issues.

Nerfmother that's awful :(

Gatsby any family regardless of class can make things fun and educational on a shoestring.

That's just reminded me of the time I worked in a high school where a head of department was given the Friday off in term time to prepare for her daughter's wedding on the Saturday and was also given the Monday off, as its tradition that the family had a family BBQ on the Sunday.

I wish it could be that schools had shorter or no holidays and that a set amount of 'leave' could be assigned to each pupil to take whenever they wanted like you do at a paid job. on the understanding that exam times were not granted as leave and that work would be assigned to be done whilst away.

I'd argue that any holiday can be educational. It depends what the parents make of it.

We are going to Scotland for a few days in August for the first time. It has already been educational IMO as the very fact we are going there has prompted so much discussion...different climates in the UK, accents, travel time in relation to distance, different food, places of interest we can go and the history of them.

This is for a 5 and 3 year old...obviously these details may not 'educate' a 14 year old, but i suppose you make it age appropriate.

Again, I'm just flabbergasted at how little worth some place on pure experiences as to educational value. I love watching my ds's show interest in the World around them and helping them learn new things. I thought every parent did.

I am a teacher, and I disagree with it.

It is important for families to spend relaxed time together, maybe experiencing something new. That is out of the reach of many families in the current financial climate. I would have a problem with a Year 6 disappearing off in the run up to SATs and so on, but other than that, no.

We attended a wedding in a part of the UK we would NEVER have gone to by choice, and learned so much about the area. It was absolutely fascinating. Lots of varied history, sights and so on. We were refused permission, and warned we might be fined. As a teacher, I can tell you hand on my heart my children learned more in those two days than they would have in school, right at the end of term, for sure.

Another question, is it a you might get fined or you will get fined?

This is ridiculous, yet they can have as many 'teacher training days' as they like (friend is a deputy head, mainly doss days), and they cancel when the weather is bad ( for obvious reasons). I'm sure a couple of weeks a year is probably what that lot all adds up to anyway, so it's ok for them to do it but not us? So wrong.

Blimey things have changed I dont have DC . But i remember going on a family holiday to Italy in the third week of September in 1983.
I was ten at the time DB was very nearly eight. There was no school fine then. Not even talk of it.
It was to see my mums side of the family The last time we went before that was in 1977.
Havent seen this side of the family since 83 but thats another story.
And believe me if there had been a fine my parents would have moaned like buggery and i would remember that.

Batman, couldn't agree more!

I don't agree with it.

I also think there should be some kind of policy in every work place that allows for annual leave in school holidays. ( even if i states that 1 week only)

"
Again, I'm just flabbergasted at how little worth some place on pure experiences as to educational value. I love watching my ds's show interest in the World around them and helping them learn new things. I thought every parent did."

Me too. :(

My first holiday abroad was a package deal to Minorca when I was 13. But it prompted my love of Spain and it's culture and then prompted me to go on and do my degree minor in Spanish.

INSET days are mandated choccy - there are 5 a year, not 'as many as they like'.

And would you like to spend the day with your colleagues? I bloody wouldn't

I am a bit with dahlen on this one. I have family MILES away and my Mum had a really nasty accident a few years ago and I had to go there to be with her and I had to take the children, there was no other way i could have done it. i am sure there are loads of scenarios the same, will they be judged in the same light?

alternatively we could campaign for some sort of legislation that restricts the blatent mark up on holidays in school hols.

re theme parks being educational - DD1 had a day at a theme park as part of a G&T summer school looking at the maths behind queues. Plus a lot of the maths she's doing now (degree) is used for traffic flow planning, equally applicable to pedestrian traffic as well as vehicle traffic

Also, there was at one point an educational travel agency offering a Maths trip to Paris and Disney.

However, I'm not sure that 8 year olds being taken out of school for a cheaper trip to eurodisney are really thinking about partial differential equations .