To not pay for my neighbours flats to be cleaned after building works?

[happyfrogger]

We are 4 weeks into a 6 week renovation on the ground floor flat we just bought in London. We have 2 neighbours above, one on either side and one at the back. We are not living there whilst the work is being done (it's a building site). It's noisy and messy.

We like to think we are considerate and neighbourly, and contacted all the neighbours letting them know our plans and schedule. We have left notes and chocolates with them part way through the works and kept them informed (and continued to apologise for the disruption) along the way.

Unfortunately, they are starting to get impatient. This week we have had a very unhappy email stating how shocked and upset the neighbours are about the state our builders are leaving the place in. They expect the communal hall to be hoovered daily and no building rubbish to be left outside in the front garden at any point. (I believe it's not in their way and personally I would bear with it for this short period). We have asked our builders again to keep it cleared regularly where possible.

I am sympathetic to a point, and we have played a civil and apologetic game. The neighbour DEMANDED her windows were cleaned by us at the end of the work, we happily we said yes of course. We also pointed out we would have communal areas professionally cleaned / carpets washed at the end of the work - and make good any damage or knocks to the communal hall etc.

We visited today to keep them informed. We were met with up-tightness and attitude. I understand it is not nice living amidst this but I'm not sure what else I can do to placate them.

Above all I want to be FAIR. Today's demand was 'I think we (all the neighbours) DESERVE that you pay for all our flats to be cleaned. At which point I said 'unfortunately I think this is a hazzard of flat living, but I'm happy to have all communal areas processionally cleaned, as you know.' Perhaps I object to the word 'deserve' or that I'm being seen as the meal ticket for redecorating the hall (yes they asked for that too). I like the fact that we are moving to an area with people who care about being considerate neighbours but I think they are starting to be unfair and there is little else I feel I can do at this point.

AIBU? What else can I do / suggest that is FAIR and without setting the expectation that I can be walked over just to keep the peace???

[HenWithAttitude]

x posted but your last post explains why you feel the way you do. Doesn't make your viewpoint right though. I thought it was the landlord you had the most complaint from?

[happyfrogger]

"your builders were leaving tools and rubbish in communal areas - those areas absolutely should be cleared EVERY day, if that costs you more, well so be it, it should have been one of the considerations within your budget!"

Yes - appreciate maybe we should have budgeted for more daily clearance as opposed to every few days. We avoided a skip outside as experience tells us neighbours resent the loss of parking space. And as much has been cleared out, there has been new rubbish coming out daily - not one big festering abandoned pile!

And there were no tools left outside.

And if we're being picky - the land is ours on the deeds, they have right of passage over it (which was not obstructed!).

But yes - daily clearance and increased expense is clearly what is needed!!

[EvieanneVolvic]

x posted but your last post explains why you feel the way you do. Doesn't make your viewpoint right though.

Looks like you and I have exactly the same thought processe Hen

[MrsKeithRichards]

Yanbu, if it's just a normal flat, no walls coming down or some being chipped away at I can't see why there would be enough mess to be affecting them.

[happyfrogger]

retired lady = in person racism, landlord = horrid emails

[EvieanneVolvic]

Re your last post frogger (11.48) See I was right about you. You ARE nice (and reasonable!)

[happyfrogger]

btw, I genuinely appreciate you all helping me put this in better perspective :)

[EvieanneVolvic]

So glad I put the time reference in!

[TrickyBiscuits]

I live in a building with lots of flats where the access to them on each level is by a long shared balcony (we're abroad). Somebody always seems to be doing something in this building and especially when it's a major renovation on your floor (like there was on ours this spring) the amount dust that comes in is incredible and the yes, it's annoying as hell having to do the extra cleaning.

I wouldn't, however, dream of demanding a cleaner! That's so ridiculous. I agree, OP, that these things are part of flat living and just happen from time to time. Oh, and for whatever it's worth, we renovated our flat in the winter time and the whole job took loads longer because of the extra drying times for plasters, paints, sealants etc so there were workmen coming and going for more extended period of time.

[WeleaseWodger]

I had the freeholder convert the flat above me while it was empty. The rubbish was left in front garden for months, attracting rats and complaints from adjacent terraced flats. Council sent someone to sort out rats, couldn't make owner move the rubbish. Communal hallway was never ever cleaned. He took out old intercoms and installed fancy new ones- but didn't send anyone to wire them in! So no intercom for 6 months (moved after). Builders working past 8pm on regular basis including weekend, they took off the roof IN THE WINTER and rain soaked two floors down to my flat (soaking the electrics so I was afraid to turn lights on, I remember going to the upstairs flat in dark placing buckets in worst spots- bloody builders then nicked my buckets!!!)... I could go on and on at what this so called "small time developer" kept doing. Always promised everything would be sorted whenever neighbours addressed the issues, when I demanded a time frame be set (after 3rd time nothing was done), he screamed at me and told me I could take him to court.

I was the tenant, my landlord cowered and did nothing. After 7-8 months of being told it would be another month or so, my contract finally was up and I could move out. And LL had to cheek to try to raise the rent at start of the building works too! When the freeholder wanted to replaster my flat to sort out the damage the water did, my LL asked me about putting me up in a hotel for couple of nights. Then looked at me blankly when I enquirer what about my belongings/furniture (tiny flat with high ceilings so nowhere to move sofa out of way to do wall/parts of ceiling), potential damage, who would clear the place, clean it- oh. He didn't think about that. I told him he would have to wait til I left.

This was in a well to do area of London as well. In retrospect, I can't believe I paid stupid money to live in those conditions.

6-8 weeks is nothing and you are being very very considerate.

[Gruntfuttock]

OP, I'm glad you've decided to get your (future) neighbours' flats cleaned. It won't compensate them for 6 weeks of noise and mess, but it will help. I realise that you won't want to be friends with them, but I do think it's important to be on as good terms as possible. They have had a hell of a lot to put up with, through no fault of their own.

[clam]

Builders' dust gets EVERYWHERE, closed doors and windows or not. I shut bedroom doors and taped up the seals once, yet still found grit and dust inside drawers and scratchy clothes.

And, whilst I appreciate you've agreed to the cleaning now, I do think that it would have been churlish to refuse on account of one ill-advised use of the word "deserve." Don't see the relevance of the Muslim reference - she may or may not be racist and unpleasant, but it's beside the point here. They're hacked off, and not unreasonably in my book, so perhaps subtlety has gone out of the window for them.

[neunundneunzigluftballons]

Here is my approach to this admittedly from the construction industry side. You approach your neightbours at the start of the job and let them know what is happening. You insist the builders keep the place clean, hoovering carpets would be expected and then you approach your neighbours at the end to offer cleaning of windows, flats whatever. Between times you allow them to approach you and meet reasonable demands from them. Definitely you do not make contact, the chocolates were derisory, not that it wasn't a nice idea but people are probably at the end of their patience and not one bit interested in your token gestures. You are cracking eggs to make an omlette people are not going to be happy, you cannot blame them but you are entitled to carry out the works and it goes with not living on a multiacre property in the country that work will impact neighbours but equally their homes should be reinstated at the end.

[WhiteBirdBlueSky]

The fact that she is a racist has nothing to do with it.

Living with building work and noise is very, very stressful and in this heat must be a nightmare.

I would probably seem quite rude to you in those circumstances.

I am glad you agree that they do deserve to have their flats cleaned.

[LessMissAbs]

They are taking the piss. I think they are probably taking the piss because you have been too accommodating towards them. What you have offered is more than a lot of people would. Six weeks of renovations is not hell but simply six weeks of renovations.

tbh The hectoring and whiny attitude of them would simply make me withdraw my offer to clean communal areas and tell them to sue me, proving actual loss as opposed to unfounded whinges. And I'd suggest to them that they buy a country cottage, well away from other properties, as opposed to an urban flat, if they cannot cope with such things. Be very careful of offering them money or services as you are admitting fault and might set a precedent for anything else they can link in in the future.

I had a similar neighbour, who moaned about everything. I had a new kitchen fitted and she moaned that I had neatly stacked boxes of kitchen units stacked to the side of my entrance door, leaving plenty of access, one weekend. As soon as my kitchen was finished, her bath leaked and destroyed it. She was nowhere to be found for a week and then wasted another week claiming it must be from an outside pipe. Don't necessarily take what moany neighbours say for gospel, some of them simply whip themselves up into a frenzy for little reason.

[missedmebythatmuch]

Absolutely you should clean up every day. If there is dirt and grit in the communal areas, your neighbours will be tracking it into their own flats.

Our downstairs neighbours pissed off everyone in the block with their high-handed approach to renovating. I note that 18 months on, everyone still refuses to take parcels for them, put their paper on their doorstep, or keep their kids quiet in the communal pool that is directly below their bedroom and living room windows. I would, quite honestly, walk on by if I saw their car getting broken into.

They did the work that was "too dirty" (eg cutting tiles) to do inside their flat on their balcony, so the dust blew into everyone else's flats. That was the point at which we reported them to the council, and they had to pay for their builders to sit around for three days and be interviewed about the nuisance they were causing.

Have the good grace and manners to realise that a professional clean is the LEAST you owe them for the massive inconvenience you have caused them.

[MaeMobley]

I do think that the fact that they don't "know" you, i.e. you have not lived there yet, does make a difference.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things and are being super considerate. Glad you changed your mind about the cleaning.

[BreadNameBread]

I think you have been very considerate and I think your nieghbours have been rude to demand their flats be cleaned.
However, I would pay for their flats to be cleaned. It must be awful for them at the moment. The hot weather is nobodies fault but it will have made things 100 times worse. slight exaggeration
Building dust gets everywhere.
Rather than organise the cleaning directly I would get a quote from a company and give the nieghbours the money directly along with the company contact details. I wouldn't get involved in hiring the company directly in case the nieghbours are not happy with them.

[ubik]

Wow

I really, really hope the flat next door is snapped up for a thorough redevelopment and then I will try to get my flat cleaned for free!

Do people really do this?

[LittleprincessinGOLDrocks]

Happyfrogger you said yourself "Yes - agree! We had carpets put on top of the communal carpets to keep them free from stains and damage." in response to my comment about the carpets. So does that mean you are considering having some sort of carpet cleaning for your neighbours flats?

[mirry2]

The op is being very unresonable.Until you've lived next to a house or flat being gutted and renovated you won't appreciate the noise and dust. At times our house literally shook from the hammerdrills next door and we couldn't hear ourselves speak. We have been through 5 months of hell and now our neighbours have just moved back in without an apology for all the disruption. In fact they haven't even spoken to us.

[AmandaHoldenmigroin]

Dust from renovations get everywhere. Why don't you sit down with them and find out how the builders are annoying them. It's not unreasonable to ask to clean up everyday, this should be done automatically without them having to ask so no wonder they are angry.

[MidniteScribbler]

Whilst you may not be required to clean their flats, there is an awful lot to be said for keeping on the good sideof your neighbours. You'll be living next to them for a long time, and something like this can ruin the relationship, before it even started. You've just got to read these forums to see how petty issues can become long time ongoing fueds, that could be avoided if people just had acted with a bit of courtesy and acknowledgement of how their behaviour impacts others.

OP, how much is a good ongoing relationship with your neighbours worth? Worth the cost of a cleaner for a day?

[digerd]

You are financially responsible for any damage caused to neighbour's property and belongings - but dusty windows?
The builders should not leave rubbish etc on anything communal for weeks on end, but as you have told them and are ignoring you, not sure what you can do.
I can understand how fed up your neighbours are though.

[GettingVerySleepy]

YABU but I feel bad for you as you sound like a much nicer person than your horrible racist self-entitled neighbour!