To think that if you are going to charge a pound for a mug of hot water, you should make it clear?

[pussycatwillum]

Yesterday I went out for lunch with a group of old ladies. One of them only ever drinks hot water. The waitress provided this for her. We then had lunch and asked for the bill.
The mug of hot water was charged at one pound.
The lady concerned was a) not happy to be asked to pay so much, although she did concede that she would have happily paid 50p as presumably they do have overheads to pay.
b) cross that nowhere on the menu was it mentioned and the waitress did not say 'There will be a charge of a pound for that, madam' which would have given her the chance to say no.
So was she being unreasonable?
It was at a place I have been to lots of times and when I mentioned that she wasn't happy the waitress immediately deducted the charge, but I think this was to avoid a scene.
Is it reasonable to charge for hot water, and is one pound a reasonable amount?

[TimeofChange]

£1.00 for hot water is reasonable.

Overheads of a business:
Rent
Rayes
Phone
Broadband
Website - maybe
Electricity
Gas
PRS Music Licence
Another Music Licence (can't remember the name)
PL Insurance
Employer Liability Insurance
Equipment Insurance
Rubbish Disposal
Staff wages, including holidays
Credit card machine charges
Bank charges
window cleaning

Other cafe overheads:
Toilet Rolls
Sanitory disposal
Hand wash
Crockery
Cutlery
Furniture
Kitchen equipment

[Goldensunnydays81]

I run a cafe and often get people asking for hot water and a lot of the time will give it for free but sometimes it depends on the customer! If they are rude about the way they ask for it or just assume that I should give them 4 cups of hot water then I would charge a small amount!
We are slightly different in the fact that we are on the beach but the amount of cheeky requests we get is unbelievable! Can we have some ketchup sachets for our BBQ or can you give us a bit of bacon for free to catch some crabs with!

[Piddlepuddle]

Pizza express asked us the other day whether we would like some olives and nuts while we were waiting for our starters to arrive. It didn't occur to me for 1 minute that they might be free!

As for the charge for hot water - I completely agree it depends on the rest of the order, so from what you have said I would probably have expected them to absorb it. But - it wouldn't have surprised me to see a charge and I probably wouldn't have challenged it.

[ZillionChocolate]

I think everyone should pay for a drink if they're sitting down on a cafe/pub/restaurant. I tend only to order cold tap water if I'm also ordering another drink too. I think it would be nice to have hot water for free, but I'd expect to pay for it.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

MmeDefarge - you said that the mushrooms probably had been on the menu - implying that not only was I too stupid to see it there, but that also all of the rest of the group with me were too stupid to read the menu too.

And, as I said, the offer was made in a manner which clearly suggested that the mushrooms were being offered as a freebie - and I was not the only one in the party who was led to believe this by the waiter - everyone else in the group did too. We were ALL surprised by the extra charge on the bill!!

I would also like to make it crystal clear that the incident does not rankle with me - I retold it here as a story that was similar to the OP's, in that no mention of payment was made until the bill was offered. The OP's story reminded me of this incident from my past - I haven't thought about it for years. What does rankle is being told I am stupid by someone who wasn't there and therefore didn't see the incident or the waiter's demeanor that caused ALL of us to make the same mistake.

[Mumoftwoyoungkids]

I assume that you have to pay for everything (except tap water).

[pussycatwillum]

To the person who said they have probably lost our custom, no, they haven't lost mine. I like the place, which is why I took the group there. I will go again, with other friends, but I suspect that the rest of the group will not.
This has been very interesting. I will try to get the lady concerned to understand that she can't take it for granted that hot water is free, although as far as I am aware this is only the second time this has happened to her. Most places do give it to her free, which is probably why she finds it hard to accept.

[holidaysarenice]

In the instance here I think it would make business sense to be free.

Group of older ladies say 6 of them, all spending a tenner-ish = 60 quid. Old ladies also likely to gossip and spread good word of business.

Piss old ladies off over 1pound and bang goes 60 quid and repeat business and good name.

Sometimes it makes sense to play the long game.

[martini84]

Should cold water be free though. We brough a kfc bargain bucket once. I didn't like the drink with it so asked for tap water. They tried to charge me the same as they charged for a bottle of mineral water. I ended up with no drink on principal. Op yanbu

[weisswusrt]

I agree mayo, but in my defense, the water was sold at 5p, it was written on the board, I poured it into a cheap paper cup myself, and drank it in class so didn't use their overheads or take up seats. I used my own teabag because the didn't sell herbal teabags. If I bought a plain bun, and then later on, far away from the canteen slipped a slice of ham into it, is this wrong too?

[CuChullain]

Some pretty naïve people on this thread.

[phantomnamechanger]

I can't believe some of the attitudes on here!

If you ASK for something, you should not expect it to be free - as seen above, many places will give free water for someone to heat a baby bottle but not as a hot drink - I think that's fair. Taking up a table with your cup of hot water and own teabag you are stopping another paying customer from ordering, or making potential customers walk by cos the place looks full.

If the McD's server says "would you like LARGE fries with your order" do you assume there is no upgrade fee? that it's a free bonus? What about the Italian place where you order pizza and they ask if you want any salad or garlic bread with that - does that mean those sides are free.

some places factor in the "freebies" to the main price - eg I know a sandwich shop where the salad is "free" on any baguette - but of course it is factored into the price of the cheese or ham baguette, based on the fact that most people will probably accept the freebie and those who don't want salad are ordering the plain ham baguette knowing the price.

[Wallison]

^^some places factor in the "freebies" to the main price

Exactly. Which is what makes it confusing. Sometimes if a server offers you something, it's free. Sometimes it isn't. Ok so you should always ask and I always do, but I can see how people who are maybe used to things being free (bread is definitely free as standard in lots of countries) just assume that it will be, because in their experience that's what restaurants do.

[MadameDefarge]

are you going to explain your odd post about my profession yet Wallison?

Or are you just going to continue to claim that all food outlets should do things in the exactly the same way in order not to confuse poor little you?

I don't go abroad and expect the same experience as I get at home, and tbh honest I don't think many people do.

Woo woo. Bread is generally free in France. In England its not. shock trauma.

[Hulababy]

No issue with a small charge for hot water if required but should be minimal.
However in most places you can't consume your own stuff on premises - so making your own tea with free/cheap hot water isn't really on.

I do think a pot of tea should come with an additional pot of hot water as standard though. In many places it does.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Hulababy, do,you mean I can't make my own herbal tea if a cafe is willing to give/sell me the boiling water to make it with? If they stocked the only herbal tea I like, I would buy it, and to be honest, if they want to charge me for the mug of water, that doesn't bother me.

But if you say someone can't make their own tea, then I am not sure what the point is of having the hot water (unless you want to drink boiling water of course). To be honest, if the cafe is happy to give/sell me the boiling water, why would it impact them negatively if I use a herbal tea bag in it?

[MadameDefarge]

because they do not get the mark up on the tea bag in order to make a profit and stay open.

If they charge you 50p for water, and £1.50 for herbal tea, they are losing £1. You are still taking up a seat, using all the facilities etc etc.

If you ordered toast, would you think it fine to whip out your own jam?

[Wallison]

MadameDefarge, I just thought that when you said you were a professional, you meant you were a member of a profession. Clearly you're not. [shrug]

[MadameDefarge]

Ok. Well, I thought I had made it clear I was talking from the viewpoint of a food business professional.

Loving the passive aggressive shrug! I am cut to the core, truly.

[Wallison]

I'd have a drink of nice cool water, if I were you.

Charge yourself for it though otherwise you'll go out of business.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Of course not. Did you miss the part where I said IF the cafe was willing to give/sell me hot water...? That would surely imply that they would be happy for me to sit at one of their tables and consume said hot water, no? And therefore it should not make any difference if I put a herbal tea bag in said hot water.

If a cafe is not willing to provide boiling water, that is their right and their choice - I am not going to complain, but I might choose to eat elsewhere.

I should also point out that I would never take up a seat in a cafe and just order a mug of boiling water - I would always have something else too. The cafes I have been to have always been happy to give or sell me boiling water as part of a bigger order, and no-one has ever complained at my using my own herbal tea bag.

[MadameDefarge]

I think I pointed out that making tap water available is a legal requirement if you provide sit down food. so that cost is ammortised into other pricing.

[MadameDefarge]

ie, in the 25% of the retail cost that is apportioned for fixed overheads such as water rates.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

'Of course not' was in reply to MmeDefarge's question about whipping out my own pot of jam in a cafe.

[MadameDefarge]

I would be happy to sell you toast at say £1. I would be less than happy to see you then whip out your favourite jam and merrily spread it on. You are eating toast and jam which has a cost associated with it. I would charge for that. That's the contract. You come in. Eat and drink what is on offer or not as you choose. You don't get to bring your own food or drink, or tea bags in, unless your other purchases make it worthwhile overlooking, and you asked very, very nicely. If you want to eat your own jam, do it at home.