to ask why more parents don't seem to care about play based learning being replaced with more formal learning in nurseries?

[teacherlikesapples]

I am at the end of my professional tether. I love my job, I love supporting children to reach their potential and helping parents understand how their children learn, so that they can support their learning as well. One of the most important aspects of my job is creating an 'enabling environment' where children play & learn.

With the Government's shift towards more formal learning, this approach is under threat.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23033496

Ignoring the tonne of evidence & research to say that would be a huge mistake (and that they should in fact be extended the play based curriculum to older children! news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8309153.stm )

This feels like a massive tragedy to me. Not only will thousands of children be missing out on some really vital experiences, on a real personal note- I cannot in all good conscience continue to teach in an environment that I consider to actually be harmful to children. So it looks likely that I will leave a job that I love.

I'm just wondering- why aren't more parents more upset about this issue? Do they consider formal learning at this young age a good thing?
I would really love to speak with someone who holds that belief. I need to understand it.

I have read that the more structured approach can get some initial gains with some academic skills. So sure, if the most important thing to you is that your child learns to read at age 4, then perhaps a case could be made.

I am not aware of any real advantage in learning to read early, as long as children make steady progress acquiring literacy skills throughout their time in nursery and any issues are flagged up early & dealt with, it all works out the same. I don't see why teaching these skills earlier is worth sacrificing other important learning opportunities.

Formal learning in the early years, is essentially telling children 'what, how and when' to think. When compared to a play based curriculum it is nowhere near as effective in promoting independence, creativity, critical thinking, problem solving, social skills... the list goes on.

It is IMHO a leftover approach from the Victorian era when children should be seen and not heard.

Am I being unreasonable to think parents should care about play being filtered out from UK nurseries?

Ok rant over. Does anyone care?

[Notcontent]

I think it's ridiculous to start formal learning so early.
I started school at 7 before moving to a country where school starts earlier but I was actually at the same level. At that early age what happens at home is what matters.

[Helenagrace]

I haven't seen successful play based learning in action so I probably won't miss it.

In my experience it involves lots of poorly supervised children playing with the same things day after day in the same way or just being aggressive with each other.

The only ones who get anything out of it are those with SN because they get an adult to work with them.

I was delighted when my DS was removed from the EYFS area and put in a year one class. It meant he actually learned something and came home with fewer bruises.

I don't think there are enough inspired practitioners out there to make it work.

[morethanpotatoprints]

*Helenagrace8

My dd is 9 and learns so much from play based learning, she thinks she is playing, I know how much progress she is making.
Even in reception and y1 there are presently plenty of opportunities to learn through play and that is indeed how your ds would have/will be taught.
Unfortunately, this is due to cease soon and children as young as 2 will receive a teacher led formal education. Not something many parents will want for their children.

[teacherlikesapples]

Helenagrace- I agree, without good ratios & properly trained staff free play can be chaotic & cause issues- because it is essentially children doing what they want. The ideal is to giving children the opportunities to make choices, then skilled adults supporting them to learn to make good ones.

When inappropriate behaviour doesn't get addressed and the children who are engaged in constructive activity get distracted or miss out on the adults attention- because they are busy doing 'crowd control'. A quality play based curriculum has boundaries & discipline.

I just wonder what the alternative would look like with those same ratios & uninspired unqualified staff.

If it boils down to us controlling the children- expecting them to think & act only in certain ways, how will they learn to do that for themselves?

[teacherlikesapples]

Sorry- posted with half my sentence missing! Meant to say:

It is definitely a problem when inappropriate behaviour doesn't get addressed and the children who are engaged in constructive activity get distracted or miss out on the adults attention- because they are too busy doing 'crowd control'. A good quality play based curriculum will have consistent boundaries & discipline.

[moogy1a]

I'm a childminder. I had my inspection about 2 months ago and I was told by the OFSTED inspector at least 3 times that my outcome would be judged on the "quality of teaching".
Very very emphasised it's all about teaching and progression. This was based on the one year old I care for.
Really scary that thet is the priority.
I intend to carry on as I am then spout the appropriate bullshit based on whatever mad idea is fashionable with OFSTED come inspection time.
Worrying though that some early years providers will feel they have to go along with this awful way of developing children

[TraceyTrickster]

Here in Australia, kids do not have to be in formal school until the year in which they turn 6....so far the kids seem happy, content and to be learning well. Just because they start 1-2 years later than UK does not impact the literacy rate, or uni attendance rate.

[KatyTheCleaningLady]

I don't think it's a bad thing. The kids seem to play a lot.

[ReallyTired]

My son went to nursery before all the EYFS crap. He had a mix of formal activities and tons of play. I believe that he had a better nursery experience than my daughter. The EYFS has dumbed down nursery to the lowest common denominatior. My daughter was bored rigid at her private nursery.

I feel that children need a mixture of both. No one is proposing that children sit down at desks and do sums or hand writing practice at the age of three. However gentle encouragement to get a child to persist at something that is difficult helps concentration. (Painting, cutting sticking, jigsaws, making shapes out of playdough)

Children do need a lot of free play, but 100% free play gets boring especially if a child is there all day.

[DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper]

I couldn't agree more.

Luckily I'm in a country where my 4-year old goes to Kindergarten to learn through play, and won't start school until he's 5.

[pianodoodle]

We didn't have pre-school but started P1 at age 4 (this is N.Ireland) and I'm still of the opinion this is fine.

You do lessons but I remember lots of playing as well.

[AmyFarrahFowlerCooper]

I think if your nursery is doing 100% free play with the same toys and no toy rotation or activities then you have chosen a pretty rubbish nursery really. I've worked in nurseries with EYFS and they both still had a mixture of free play and guided activities where the adult was alongside to make sure they were being safe (scissors etc) and then gently encouraging learning (describing colours that the child was using, noises the scissors made, textures and shapes with the play dough etc). Toys were rotated in and out and the role play areas were always changing to encourage new interactions. That's all learning through play. I couldn't imagine it all being more formal all the time. I'm picturing children sat on the mat looking at pictures of colours and learning them by rote. How is that going to encourage learning more than playing with toys and being told the colours that way (that's a red truck! I've got the green car!) and absorbing the knowledge naturally.

[teacherlikesapples]

I think the thing that seems abundantly clear from this thread is that many parents don't understand what a good quality free-play nursery setting should look like and assume that if a place is free-play that means the staff are only supervising & letting children do what they want.

AmyFarrahFowlerCooper & ReallyTired: Just because a nursery has 100% free play- doesn't mean that staff aren't working with children to extend their thinking. Quite the opposite- freeplay enables staff the flexibility to work with individual children & small groups to extend thinking in ways relevant to those individual children.

We are constantly on the lookout for teachable moments. Careful thought is put in each day, into the environment, resources, strategies, language, interaction...

We still plan, we still do projects, we set targets & goals, we evaluate each day & adapt our plans based on what we have observed. So that the set up each day is relevant to the strengths, needs and interests of the children in the group. Persisting with difficulty & developing concentration are a key component of the EYFS.

The teachers still offer structured activities- the children just choose whether to participate. If we notice that particular children never engage with the adult lead activities- we plan things based on their interest, we take the learning/teaching to where they are.

The settings you describe where toys are not rotated & 'activities' are dumbed down- is not good practice or good quality.

[NadiaWadia]

I suppose that's what happens when the power resides in the hands of fairly recently appointed government ministers who know nothing about education (their previous job could have been in transport or any other unconnected field), and yet once in power, they feel they can ignore professionals in the field with decades of experience. And yet the public are all supposed to take seriously their pompous pontificating.

I went to what was considered a very progressive state primary in the 1970s and remember a lot of play. School was full of exciting activities. I was a bit sad when DD started school in the late 90s to find that the school day had become more formalised, with 'literacy hour' etc, and even though her school was excellent, the teachers obviously had no choice in this. And now things are going to get much more formal than that, feel very sorry for children starting school in the next few years.

Maybe someone should start a campaign about it?

[ReallyTired]

I go with what my daughter enjoys. She is at school nursery where there is a mixture of guided activites and free play. Her teacher gets all the children to sing songs at the end of the day, the children play instruments, they have a story and go on nature walks in the school grounds.

In contrast the day nursery had lovely grounds and better toys, but my daughter was bored. She is eager to learn and having to discover everything for herself is frankly a very slow way to learn.

"nd yet once in power, they feel they can ignore professionals in the field with decades of experience. And yet the public are all supposed to take seriously their pompous pontificating. "

Many "professionals" ignore parents who know their children best. Some children enjoy structure.

[HamsterDam]

my ds will be 4in October has been at a private nursery since he was 9 months. since January maybe before they have been learning phonics and they sit and do number work. he can recognise numbers up to 100, counts to 12 recognises all the letters of the alphabet and can say them in order and writes his name.
can't see the harm in spending an hour a day on work like this so long as a child that's not interested or is getting frustrated with it is being tortured/forced.
little brains are like sponges they learn it all so quickly. if they are still allowed to play then what's the harm?
academic achievement is important to me and my sons dad (my ex) so when he starts at his new pre school in September which is much more play orientated- they don't do any phonics or number work, as parents we will continue the work at home, ds enjoys it and is capable so why not?

[PrettyKitty1986]

I'm not really that concerned. I remember when the move was made to learning through play. I couldn't really see any difference in the classroom from before. So I'm not too bothered if they change it back.

[CreatureRetorts]

YANBU

It's a tragedy and I'm worried for the future of my children's education.

GOVE IF YOU'RE LISTENING, YOU'RE SCARING ME.

[CreatureRetorts]

I will add, my ds goes to a play based pre-school - and he's doing brilliantly. Trying to read (he's 3), write, his confidence has come on leaps and bounds and he's learning so much. The idea of him sitting down doing forced academic style learning fills me with dread. He's tiny.

Also Montessori nurseries which are almost always leaps ahead do it this way - play based. They're better for a reason.

[CreatureRetorts]

Oh and he doesn't just "play with toys" all day.

[CreatureRetorts]

This just demonstrates how ridiculous Gove's ideas are - he just makes it up.

[CreatureRetorts]

One of those petitions would be a start and ask MN if they'd sponsor one?

[ReallyTired]

Seeing this thread it is clear that in many settings some children are gently introduced to phonics, shown how to write their name, getting children how to recongise numbers. Surely all nurseries should be doing this.

I don't believe that even Gove wants pre school children sitting in rows doing formal learning. It is making sure that all nurseries get a suitable balance. Prehaps it shows the importance of having graduates in the pre school class room so that children have access to high quality learning experiences.