Baby Boomers - The selfish generation?

[YellowTulips]

Ok - so this came out of another thread...but it got me thinking and gathered a few responses.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1743690-Please-I-NEED-to-know-if-IABU-before-I-take-a-stand-with-my-in-laws?pg=1

I have posted below as I did on the thread. What I am interested to know is if this is a really wide spread issue?

Disclaimer: Whilst I know (far) to many people this applies to, I have to confess my parents and PIL's so no signs of bonkers retirement plans (just good planning to give them a good standard of life).

Ok - so post below:

Whilst this case is at the extreme end of the spectrum, there seems to be (from the posts here and chats with friends/colleagues) a real reluctance on the "baby boomer" generation to make sustainable retirement plans.

Here in the UK many friends have parents who for years have lived off rising property values and the expectation that they can sell up or remortgage to fund what are clearly highly expensive lifestyles that can't be maintained over 20/30 years of non generation of income.

There seems to be a groundswell of entitlement often laughingly termed "spending the kids inheritance" - which in principle I don't object to - you can't take it with you and I personally would rather my parents enjoyed retirement than "save" or god forbid "scrimp" for me, but I am seeing this taken to "spend the inheritance and then let the kids bail us out".

I have lost count of friends who are now in some form or another subsiding their retired parents - parents who have "blown" life savings and house equity on mad "let's buy a house in Spain to live in half the year" or let's "travel around the US in a huge RV for 2 years" or "buy a boat and sail around the med" because they refused to really think if they could afford it.

Before I get beaten up, I don't object to people wanting to help family in desperate straights, I just seem to hear more and more stories where these situations were totally avoidable and parents have been - put bluntly - bloody selfish at worst and in denial at best.

The families involved are now making sacrifices that impact their children at the very time they should be the priority.

Do I just have an unlucky social group or is this issue becoming more prevalent?

Rant over.....hand me a !

[whiteandyellowiris]

i think they had it easy compared to these days, in the same way weve had it easy compared to how shit its going to be when our dcs are grown ups

[hairtearing]

Which baby boon are thee referring to? my DM is from the 1960 baby boom & I am from the 1989 baby boom.

[Fillyjonk75]

I think the babyboomers were the first generation where being selfish was encouraged - rise of the individual instead of collectivism in the 1950s onwards.

People in their 50s and up to mid 60s seem more likely than any other age group to be the rude, self-satisfied Tory/UKIP Daily Mail reading bigotted pub bore types. Vernon and Petunia Dursley.

[Fillyjonk75]

My parents and in-laws are war babies/just pre-war. Different kettle of fish.

[babyboomersrock]

And many of us are not rude, self-satisfied Tory/UKIP Daily Mail readers. Many of us despair at the lack of interest in politics, at the complete apathy many people display when it comes to voting or any form of political activism.

If we - the babyboomers - are the problem at the core of our society, what should we (all of us) do about it? How do we change it? How do we reduce the resentment some younger people feel towards us?

[Lilymaid]

People in their 50s and up to mid 60s seem more likely than any other age group to be the rude, self-satisfied Tory/UKIP Daily Mail reading bigotted pub bore types. Vernon and Petunia Dursley.

Anecdote or data?

[Wibblypiglikesbananas]

Babyboomersrock - I don't think either Bogeyface or myself have said anything about condemning a whole generation - rather, you're right, that that is the attitude we've unfortunately experienced in our own families.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, my ILs are much more in touch with reality - and that isn't to say we're waiting for handouts from them, rather it's nice that they even acknowledge that it can be hard now (which it sounds like you do too). In fact, are you my MIL?!

[ProbablyJustGas]

I think in many cases babyboomers were both very lucky and very unlucky. It depends on circumstances.

My own parents have very little - AFAIK - to retire on. One quit her job to raise two children and found her career had been eliminated by the time she was able to go back to work full time. The other had pension savings once upon a time, but it was tied to dot-com stocks. He was so dismayed about having a four-figure pot (far less than what he put in), that he decided to cash it out and spend it on his kids' (American) college educations, which were also straining family finances at the time. My folks sold their house for far more than what they'd originally paid for it, but it required redecorating in order to sell, sat on the market for a year, and a lot of the proceeds paid for a cross-country move so my dad could start a new job. They now have a house of their own again, but it is worth less today than what they bought it for, so they are stuck.

I have no idea if I'd ever make it work, but I keep hoping that someday, I'll be able to get a house with an in-law wing to take them in if need be. Especially my mom.

I don't think they were selfish. I think they put themselves under a lot of pressure to give their kids "the best", and that usually involves spending, rather than saving money. And I think they were maybe counting on Social Security to be enough - once upon a time, it was.

[janey68]

For specific thing which some people envy the BB generation, there will be another aspect of life which they could no doubt be envy in the younger generation.

Like i said before: I am all to aware that I was able to purchase a house more easily than younger people. However I could equally well say I'm envious of the 12 months maternity leave (as opposed to 12 weeks !) which were available in the past) and also the tax credits and free childcare hours available now.

It really is swings and roundabouts.

[Grinkly]

I think that the baby boomer / pensioners thing is a problem here.

Mainly women over 60 and men over 65 can draw state pension (or is how it was until recently). But baby boomers ( in my view those born when soldiers came back from the war) who are 58-68 will have such different lives from 80 year old who are also pensioners. But they get lumped together as if they are one thing. In fact many baby boomers are caring for elderly parents, but they are all pensioners.

Joan Bakewell was on the news quiz and when someone suggested reducing pensions her response was 'no way, we've worked hard for it and we deserve it'. The media takes this on and states that the government can't touch pensions. But she is speaking, imv, for the 80+ year olds whose lives were so different from today's youngsters.

Pensions are taxed anyway so I don't see all this talk about protecting them as true anyway.So I think much of the angst over the selfish bbs is due to the misleading talk in the media such as JB's comment (and she isn't a bb as too old).

[Xmasbaby11]

I don't really know any parents like that - I think you're unlucky. Many of our generation from having parents who can help them financially. Most of my friends have been given money for housing. I doubt we'll be able to do that with DD.

[ivanapoo]

babyboomersrock I think you make an excellent point. My parents had a much harder life until their 40s than I've had so far, whereas my quality of life has been fairly good so far but is unlikely to improve dramatically, and might even get worse financially.

An elderly relative is well off and very well to do yet she used to rinse off cling film and foil once she'd used it and hang it to dry to use again well into her 80s. The hardship her generation underwent never really left her, and is hard for me to really understand.

[ComposHat]

Obviously it is hard to generalise, but I agree they are selfish or perhaps more thoughtless and don't appreciate that their lifestyles will be paid for by their children. I would like at least some appreciation that they won a genetic lottery and that came at their children's expense.

Both of my baby-boomer parents retired at 50 & 51 respectively and consistantly spend more than they earn and they have no mortgage to pay. My fiancee's mother is the same, but doesn't have a cushion of savings built up so is reliant on family members to bail them out.

My parents' life went like this:

Born in an NHS hospital > Free higher education > bought 3 bed semi at 22 > job for life with gold plated pension > bought public utility shares on the cheap --> Retired in early 50s with large pensions and lump sums and can look forward to another 25-30 years of this standard of living, with their inflation proof pensions and lots of little perks they don't need, like free bus passes and winter fuel.

They are the first generation where their children will have a lower living standard than their parents and they should shoulder some responsibility for this.

[janey68]

So much bitterness on this thread... People need to stop transferring their anger that their own parents are behaving selfishly onto the general population

[ComposHat]

On my part at least, I am using it as an example how - on a whole- the baby boomers they have enjoyed lifestyles that would be beyond the ken of their parents who spend their youths getting their arses shot off or their children who will end up paying for their 80 year self indulgent binge.

It would be a start if they would acknoledge their good fortune and acknoledge that things are harder for their children.

[babyboomersrock]

But ComposHat, you're doing exactly what janey68 said. Your parents are individuals - they're not representative of most babyboomers I know and we have no evidence that your parents' attitude is the norm. I'm sorry for you that you have selfish parents, but we aren't all like that; being 60-something doesn't make us all heartless, self-centred twits.

I don't know anyone who retired at 50, for a start. I also don't know anyone who could be accused of having an "80 year self-indulgent binge", unless I include pop stars, politicians or the aristocracy.

This antagonism towards a whole generation helps no-one. I could go on all night, giving you examples of people who're not like your parents but it wouldn't change a thing.

I could also reiterate that I know that - in some ways - life was easier for our generation and that your generation doesn't have an easy life...but that wouldn't help you. I guess you need your parents to say it.

[ABroomOfOnesOwn]

'The decision makers of the Baby Boomer have pulled the ladder up after themselves'

This seems to be one of the underlying points with this discussion. So take the blue chip, FTSE250 companies - babyboomers that worked for these institutions have benefited from good salaries, job security, annual increments, early retirement, etc. Those companies have now 'outsourced' lots of roles, no job security, low pensions, etc. The people making those decisions are the baby boomers.

[ABroomOfOnesOwn]

The contrast between the haves and havenots is far greater now then it was in the 50,60,70s.

So the baby boomers have kept pace on the whole with their peers. The head of the company earned 10 times the cleaners wage.

Now we have a huge class earning less then the living wage, working for multi-nationals, eg Costa Coffee while the public purse make up the wage difference. Some jobs appear to pay over well but a huge level of employment at the 20-30k level, which most of the BB generation would have fallen into have disappeared.

[Wibblypiglikesbananas]

I've spotted a trend here - seems that anyone who says their parents do exhibit the behaviours displayed in the OP is jumped on by the baby boomers on this thread and told that it must just be their parents that are selfish. Except that there are quite a few of us saying we've experienced this - and each and every one of us has said that we are not generalising, simply citing our own experiences and realities...

Interesting that none of the baby boomers on this thread even recognise the type of people we're describing, isn't it?

[babyboomersrock]

"Interesting that none of the baby boomers on this thread even recognise the type of people we're describing, isn't it?"

What does that mean? That we're lying? That we're defending the indefensible?

Could it be that the sort of "babyboomer" who uses Mumsnet tends to have a compassionate mindset? Or that, first and foremost, we're mothers/parents? That some of us - in common with many Mnetters - tend to be left-ish rather than right-ish in our politics? That we truly don't - personally - know anyone who is as self-centred and smug as the people you know? After all, if I despise the mentality I hear you describe in your older relatives, I'd hardly have them as friends, would I?

Blame is something politicians love, as long as it isn't aimed their way.

So, what's the answer? What should we, as babyboomers, do to redress the balance?

[babyboomersrock]

Wibbly, you're right. What we're all doing is "citing our own experiences and realities" which is pointless and is going nowhere.

I have already said how sorry I am that younger generations don't have it easy. I'm sorry there are not enough affordable homes and that students are left with mountains of debt, and no jobs to look forward to. I loathe that as much as you do. I didn't want anyone's children to end up in that position.

All I can say is this. If you feel that problems are ongoing, that the "grey vote" holds too much sway and that your generation is still being oppressed by the over-60s, then please take action.

Get out there. Use your votes. Get angry with the right people.

[curryeater]

There are two different things and it doesn't help to conflate them:

1 - the personalities of individuals (individuals can be selfish or generous or community minded or thoughtless-but-not-deliberately-selfish, or a million other personality traits)

2 - the economic circumstances of different times.

The economic circumstances have made some generations much richer than others - or perhaps, more accurately, have offered more members of some generations access to more opportunities for wealth - but this doesn't say anything about the indvidual personalities of those taking part in it.

HOWEVER who you vote for and what economic policies you support are not morally neutral decisions.

[ExitPursuedByABear]

It is hardly the baby boomers fault that they benefitted from the housing boom though. Different eras have made people wealthy in differing ways. Who knows what the future holds?