To (privately) disapprove of my friend having a cleaner

[Unami]

Ok. This may be long, but I will do my best to explain where I am coming from. My friend has a cleaner and I privately disapprove. I would never make an issue of it to her, or even bring it up. It was brought up by another friend when we were at her place for drinks. She was a bit about it, and it led to a big discussion, but I didn't say anything committal. I do recognise that she can hire a cleaner if she likes. If she likes she can hire a troupe of jugglers and have them juggle in her kitchen all day, if she likes. It's none of my business, I get that.

But I still privately disapprove. AIBU?

Her cleaner comes to her two bedroom flat twice a week and gives it a full clean, and that apparently includes hoovering all carpets and upholdstry, dusting all surfaces, polishing wood, sweeping and cleaning wooden floor in hall and kitchen, emptying waste bins in the house and taking kitchen bins round the back, cleaning mirrors, cleaning the inside of windows, full clean of the kitchen including inside the fridge, full clean of bathroom. Once a month she also gets the oven cleaned, extractor fan cleaned and polished (!?), cupboards dusted inside and out. She says she pays £45 a week for this.

It's just her in the flat. She doesn't have kids and doesn't live with her bf.

Here's my perspective. People say that having a cleaner is just like hiring any other service provider. But it's not. Domestic cleaners clean intimate, private parts of our houses, and clean up our bodily mess, and it's low paid, low status work. Yes, people hire gardeners and window cleaners, but these are roles which require specialist equipment and insurance, and they only work on the outside and periphery of your home. Yes, I recognise that cleaners are employed in offices I use, cafes I eat in and so on, but it's not really the same either. Most commerical cleaners are employed as staff and so get holiday pay, sick pay, NI etc. Agency workers don't have it so good, and I disagree with the terms of their employment too. But domestic cleaners are often paid cash in hand because employers think they are doing them a favour. But they have no holiday, sick pay - what happens if they have an accident in the house they are cleaning in. I know there are some well organised small cleaning companies, but I think they are the exception.

But most of all, I just feel like my friend is just being lazy or thinks she's too good to pick up after herself. If you are elderly or disabled or immobile, then I see nothing wrong with getting the help that you need. Likewise, if you have a busy family, and don't want to be stuck being the person who picks up after everyone else - get the help you need and show the family how much your time costs. But if you have a quiet life and are fit and healthy, I don't see why you think it's ok to have someone over to clean your toilet. I also think that people who say they are so impossibly busy with work that they can't lift a duster once a week really ought to think about cutting back their ft hours, and give others access to the surplus of work they have.

I'm not going to have a go at my friend. But I just don't think it's right.

[TheNewson]

God I wish she'd clean my place too. It's a right mess! Fair play to your friend.

[NumericalMum]

Same as GettingObsessive

And I pay my cleaner £10 an hour. For a non skilled job. She supports her son and mother. Should I tell her I need to clean my own house because some ridiculous stranger on the Internet says it is morally wrong?

I work 40 hours a week and have a 5 year old. Weekends are for her. And if it took a few minutes why am I paying her for 5 hours a week? She has made my life much better and I have enabled her to support her son after her boyfriend left. Win win really!

[GettingObsessive]

Also none of this takes account of the fact that I don't want to clean my house and I am lucky enough to be able to pay someone else to do it for me.

I pay for all sorts of other services I want - like hairdressing, cooking meals, coffee out. I could cut my own hair, always eat at home and drink instant. But I don't want to.

[thezebrawearspurple]

I'm sure that cleaners would disagree with you. They're making an honest living and have the right to do it, you're only opposed to it because you think it's not a good enough job, very snobby imo. I'm sure your friends cleaner is happy she's not unemployed or working at an even lower status and lower paid job and your friend gets her apartment kept gleaming. That's a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Nothing wrong with hiring people as long as you treat them well and pay them properly.

And some people do like cleaning, why not make money from it through private arrangements?

[GettingObsessive]

Forgive me, I haven't read the pages and pages of people saying YABU thread but:

"I also think that people who say they are so impossibly busy with work that they can't lift a duster once a week really ought to think about cutting back their ft hours, and give others access to the surplus of work they have."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Are you actually insane? I'd LOVE to see you trying to explain to my boss why I have to go home from work because I need to clean my house and its not ethical for me to pay someone else to do it for me.

[KatyTheCleaningLady]

Kiki I wouldn't like that gig! I would get bored out of my mind doing the same house twice a week and I like there to be some actual dirt to clean!

[Cloverer]

The weirdest comments on this thread were about nannies all being the same nationality (who knows what) and how awful it is that there are career nannies rather than just girls on gap years

[KristinaM]

Now I feel guilty about going the hairdressers, because I should learn to cut and colour it myself. And buying bread from a shop. And hiring a painter to do the eaves . And the accountant for doing my tax return. And paying the tree surgeon to cut down the leylandii. And the roofer for replacing the slates and repairing the velux window. I buy all our clothes when I coudl be making them myself.

I even pay someone to do alterations, she must feel so demeaned.

I could have cut back my working hours and learned to do all these things myself .

Am I still allowed to hire the chimney man to install the stove, or should I take more time off so I can become HETAS registered?

I send my children to school as well. Maybe I should home educate instead?

[lilystem]

Golden bear - Thursday nights in my childhood meant clean ready for the cleaner night. Now I'm older with my own cleaner I know it more as tidy for the cleaner night.

Didn't stop me learning how to clear up my own mess at all.

[Kikithecat]

I'd say that cleaner is probably quite pleased to have a regular job where there must be very little to clean as there's only one person and the cleaner's in twice a week. Must be a doddle compared to her other gigs.

[WhatKindofFool]

I'd be more worried that my friend had OCD to be honest.

[BerylStreep]

Whoever said that cleaning other people's toilets was grim - my Mum doesn't have great eyesight, so any time I am at her house I would give the bathroom a clean, including the toilet. I don't give it a second's thought.

And of the 3 hours a week that my cleaner spends at my house, probably 10 minutes max are spent cleaning the toilet.

I also tidy before the cleaner comes, so that she can spend her time cleaning, not tidying, and I would empty any bathroom bins in advance as well.

I wonder if the OP's about her friend is because twice a week sessions and monthly oven cleans seems a bit excessive? If the OP's friend was the one who was cleaning the flat herself to the same extent, would the OP still feel the need to privately judge, or is it just because she is paying someone else to do it?

[KatyTheCleaningLady]

I'm glad people hire me to clean for them.

[randgirl]

Um, i have a cleaner 3 days a week. She comes at 7.30am and leaves at about 3pm. I dont feel guilty for having her clean my house. I dont live in UK but it certainly isnt unusual to have someone to help you in the house here.

[MrsMelons]

MrsDeVere - that made me spit my coffee over my laptop

[SoupDragon]

I like cleaning. I am good at it and I get satisfaction from it.

Whereas I hate it, am crap at it and would happily pay somone else to do it.

Win win :o

[shewhowines]

YABU and YANBU

but

She is BU to dust her cupboards once a month and clean the oven so often etc. In fact if it is only her, her kitchen and bathrooms don't need doing twice a week. Yes she is definitely being unreasonable but YABU too, it's her money to spend as she wishes i'd secretly disapprove too but would think once a week is ok

[MrsMelons]

Blimey - having a cleaner a few hours a week does not mean we don't clear up after ourselves, there are 4 of us so there is plenty that needs doing, a housekeeper is a different story but I still don't see anything wrong with that I can dream

I don't think having someone clean the kitchen/bathroom and dust/hoover once or twice a week will stop me teaching the children how to clear up after themselves. We do make sure the house is tidy for when the cleaner comes, it means she can actually concentrate on cleaning and also ensures our house is always tidy.

I am quite jealous of your friend so I may speak to DH about having the cleaner an extra hour or two per week

[mrscoleridge]

What you need is a bigger problem.
Oh and yes yabvvvvvu

[Fecklessdizzy]

It's worth pointing out that there's been a good number of posts on here by people who are or have been cleaners - and none of them have agreed with the OP

[VenusOfWillendorf]

I LOVE having a cleaner. I have no children, and live by myself. I have a two bedroom, 1000 sq ft appartment. I don't work particularly long hours; I do work full time and work about 10 hours/day Mon-Thurs but take a half day on Fridays.
I have a cleaner because I don't particularly enjoy cleaning; I'd rather spend my evenings going for walk, reading a book, playing my piano or painting my nails. I feel absolutely no need sense of guilt/shame in this - it never occured to me that anyone would until I read this thread. I am just happy that I can afford it and it improves my quality of life. My cleaner is happy too - she comes to me for four hours every second Tuesday and chooses her own hours during the day. She is paid 22 pounds/hour (the going rate where I live) and gets holiday pay and she's insured. Obviously I need to dust, hoover, disinfect the toilet etc, but her coming and doing a thorough job means what I just need to stay on top of it and it's light and fast and doesn't build up to the point where it's hard work.

I have a friend who went to Tanzania on a six month voluntry post. The job came with a small apartment and the previous worker had employed a cleaner. My friend didn't feel the need of a cleaner, said she'd rather do it herself and had plenty of time as she wasn't working full-time. So she dismissed the cleaner. The next week a deputation of people came from the local town to ask her why she dismissed a good worker who was a single mother with three children, and did she realise what hardship she had caused. Of course she didn't - it hadn't occured to her. She re-hired the cleaner and understood and that it was a social responsibility for those who could afford to employ others to do so.
There's a lot to be said for taking this attitude.

[jacks365]

My sis gave up on her cleaner when she realised she was adding to her stress ie my sis spent ages making sure the housewwas spotless before the cleaner came ( so she could focus on hovering, dusting washing windows etc). I however would be lost without my cleaner but she doesn't come in and pick up after us she comes in to do specific jobs. She does 2 mornings first is spent sweeping, hovering, mopping or polishing all floors as needed (hard going with a toddler running around) other morning she deep cleans one room. I am still the one doing the day to day housework, laundry, washing up etc but she does the big time consuming jobs. In some ways i view her as a specialist and definitely not beneath me.

[BeCool]

HNRWT - all 460 odd posts!!!

But I would love to live in the OP's friends flat. it sounds bloody lovely. Though I would not like to have the OP as a friend.

I had a cleaner come for 2 hours last week - first time ever. It is the most marvellous thing ever & long may it last.

[HazleNutt]

"Life is not wholly about making yourself happy at the expense of others." - I don't think my cleaner would be happier if I fired her