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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think our landlord could have told us

57 replies

pantsjustpants · 22/04/2013 22:37

That they've put in for planning to build a house on our garden? Dh has just come home to find the notice attached to our front gate! We've not been informed or asked if this is ok, but we are aware that this is what they'd like to do in the future. I'm a bit peeved tbh.

OP posts:

ComposHat · 23/04/2013 00:36

Ta Hattie!

I hope so too, especially as she/the letting agents tried to pull a fast one over the deposit. The flat was put together by cowboys and freezing cold for about 10 months of the year.

I think she's given up on selling for the time being, as nobody in their right mind would pay what she was asking. We'd left and found a different flat, not necessarily better, but cheaper and the landlord is a decent bloke.

MidniteScribbler · 23/04/2013 04:48

But you obviously knew this was a possibility and presumably your rent would be set accordingly? If my tenants knew that there was the likelihood of future planning, then I probably wouldn't tell them I had applied. I would give them plenty of notice of any work going ahead though.

claudedebussy · 23/04/2013 06:31

'We always knew they were planning on selling and/or building.'

it's the council who put it up. he doesn't get a say in that.

not really sure why you're cross. you knew, and now he's applying for planning. these things take absolute ages.

GailTheGoldfish · 23/04/2013 06:44

Ask him to reduce your rent on the basis of having to deal with the intrusion of building work in such close proximity. If he won't, tell him you are moving. It will be damn difficult for him to get new tenants into what will be a building site so I'm sure you can use it to your financial advantage.

ZillionChocolate · 23/04/2013 06:45

I think it's rude and poor business practice. LL should have contacted you direct to say that they were making an application for planning permission and to give you a timescale, ie nothing would happen before X date. It might cause you to end your tenancy prematurely.

EllieArroway · 23/04/2013 07:04

Does the landlord have to ask you if it's ok to apply to build a house on his own property?

Er...yes, he does. It's not "his" property while he has a tenant there. That's what a tenancy means. When he grants a tenancy (which includes the garden) then he is handing over the right to the tenant to treat it as their own while the tenancy is in existence. He can't do anything that impacts the right to peaceful enjoyment while the tenancy is in place.

It's odd that landlords (and most MNers) seem to think that the LL is really just doing the tenant a favour letting them live in "their" property in return for rent. This is not the case. The property is the tenants while the tenancy is in place - the LL just retains the right to take it back under certain very strict conditions.

OP - ignore most of the comments here. Not only should the LL have spoken to you, he requires your permission while your tenancy is in place to make any changes at all. It's not actually his garden at the moment, it's yours.

He's breaking the law - and this could be regarded as harassment and at odds with his responsibility to allow you the right to quiet enjoyment as a tenant.

It's up to you what you do. Do you want a house in YOUR garden that YOU pay rent for? Is he going to reduce the rent you pay to reflect that you no longer have the right to quiet enjoyment in your own garden?

He's got a flaming cheek, quite frankly.

Original poster

pantsjustpants · 23/04/2013 07:09

We have full use of the garden. Tbh it's because of the garden that we love living here! Without the garden it's just a bog standard 3 bed house. The planning application says they're building a 4 bed detached house, but that means they'll both have small gardens.

Btw, I'm not quibbling his right to do what they want, just 5 minutes would have been a whole lot nicer! We were also told this was a long term let, and coincidentally our years lease has just expired so we're on a rolling contract. Will contact the agent today and see what's going on.

OP posts:

HerrenaHarridan · 23/04/2013 07:13

Ellie got there first!

I was astonished at how many people were say its his house. No it isn't, the tenant is paying for it to be their house, for a few carefully regulated reasons they could demand immediate departure, and ever tome to tenancy is up for renewal they can offer changes which you can refuse ( although they may refuse to renew your tenancy).

Even if the garden is not included in the lease, there are specifications about the tenants right to inhabit the house in peace with out the landlords intrusion etc which I certainly think you could argue include setting up a building site in your garden.

TeWiSavesTheDay · 23/04/2013 07:14

I would not be happy at all. Poor you.

EllieArroway · 23/04/2013 07:16

Btw, I'm not quibbling his right to do what they want Except legally he doesn't have the right. At all.

But if it doesn't worry you too much, then that's fine. No point in causing hassle for the sake of it. But be aware that no, he doesn't have any right to do anything in YOUR garden without getting your permission first.

I would point this out to the agents and insist that you are kept informed, for courtesy reasons if nothing else.

MrsHoarder · 23/04/2013 07:28

He didn't have the right to start building whilst there are sitting tenants but anyone can apply for planning permission on why land: the panning permission would then remain for the the years even if the property changed hands. The practical use of this is that if I wanted to buy a house only if I could build an extension I could get permission prior to exchange and then get gazzumped because the property is now more appealing

nooka · 23/04/2013 07:29

But he is not building anything right now so the tenant is not being disturbed. There is no building site in the garden, and I really think it would be a stretch to suggest that the LL is harassing his tenants because he has applied for planning permission and the council has put up a notice on their gate so that local people are informed and can make any objections.

Yes it would have been polite to inform his tenants that he had asked for planning permission assuming that he knew notices would go up (he may not have been aware this would be the case) and that they might be (understandably) concerned, but they did know it was a possibility.

OP had you asked for contract renewal? When I let the agents usually arranged this a couple of months before the end of the current contract. They don't usually like rolling contracts (because they don't get the renewal fee I suspect).

AnonYonimousBird · 23/04/2013 07:34

He's only applying for permission - may not build for a while.

TolliverGroat · 23/04/2013 07:34

He's applying for planning permission (which he does have the right to do - you don't even need to own land to apply for planning permission to build on it. Heck, I could apply for planning permission to build a house in the OP's back garden, if I knew her address), not rocking up with a bulldozer (which he doesn't).

There's not necessarily even the slightest intention to start work for a couple of years even if he does get planning permission through. He might even be planning to sell (the price he can get will be significantly higher with planning permission attached) rather than build anything himself.

Cosmosim · 23/04/2013 07:42

EllieArroway, what law is the LL breaking? What you wrote is plain nonsense - please stop advising OP to not read sensible posts and listen I yours until you can back your claims with facts, not opinions.

EllieArroway · 23/04/2013 07:56

Yes, that's true. I was leaping ahead to imagining him turning up and beginning digging - planning permission is not permission to build.

EllieArroway · 23/04/2013 07:59

It's not nonsense. I was responding to rather a lot of comments saying he can do whatever he likes - it's his house. It's not - and it''s not his garden either, not while there's a tenancy in place.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 23/04/2013 08:22

I'm all for tenants' rights and I agree it's not the LL's house, but honestly I think it is an overreaction to object to a planning application. This is such an early stage - he won't even know yet if he's definitely got permission as people may still object. Even then he could sit on the permission for ages.

Unless you have some kind of very unusual long-term contract, I can't see how it matters. Of course it must be a nasty shock to realize you may have to leave when your contract is up (assuming you don't want to live in a building site), but that's always a nasty shock.

How many months have you left on the contract? I think it is quite plausible that he might not be expecting to start building for six months or a year.

BikeRunSki · 23/04/2013 08:26

The LL isn't breaking any laws, but it would have been polite to tell the OP he'd applied for PP.

I found out my LL had sold my house when I got home from work to find a sold sign up. Apparently it had only gone on the market that day and had sold so quickly there wasn't time to put a For Sale board up. As if. So someone came to view it without us knowing while we were at work.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 23/04/2013 08:29

Well, that is breaking the law bike (what your LL did).

I think in this case I can see the LL's side. He could be planning something much longer-term than the OP's contract, and he doesn't have to share all his thought-processes with them. I would be narked if someone popped a for sale sign up without asking, but I think a notice about planning permission is a bit different because it is so much less intrusive than someone preparing to show viewers around.

goingupinfumes · 23/04/2013 08:57

That's just rude I'd be miffed I think as a long term renter I would expect a bit more notice.

I would be looking to move somewhere with a more considerate landlord, can you imagine living there during the build? you'll be the builders loos / tea makers!

I would maybe ask if the plans are approved if he was going to build straight away?

RenterNomad · 23/04/2013 09:29

It's silly not to let you know about timescales, as it's unwelcoming and unsettling, and you could quite reasonably decide to up and leave, needlessly if the plan is a very long-term thing.

jojane · 23/04/2013 09:44

We rent our house. It originally (long before we moved in) had a huuuuge garden. The landlord split it up (along with next doors which is also owns) and built 2 x6 bed houses behind the end of our new garden. When we moved in we knew that the plot of land next to us as well as the other side of next door would be built on at some point. Unfortunately the diggers moved in (about 2 years after we moved in ) on the same day we were having DDs birthday BBQ!

TheChaoGoesMu · 23/04/2013 09:56

He's not breaking the law. He has every right to apply for planning permission on the property that he owns. Yes it would have been p

TheChaoGoesMu · 23/04/2013 09:57

Pressed send to fast

Yes it would have been polite to tell you, but theres only a problem if he actually turns up with the bulldozer.

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