Not to know if this is my responsibility? (tenant/ landlord)

[RevoltingPeasant]

About 6 mos ago, we realised that the bolt on the window of the spare room of our rented house was frozen. It's the bolt at the bottom, and the window is currently on the latch.

We reported it to the landlord and he tried to fix it with WD40 (we'd already tried this, obv) and it didn't work. He then sent us a letter saying that in general, it was tenants' responsibility to oil all latches and locks regularly, and if we don't, the frozen bolt is our responsibility and we need to pay for a handyman/ glazier to fix it.

I have tried everything I can think of - WD40, 3-in-1 oil, even taking off part of the catch to get at the bolt myself - but nothing works.

But, it seems to me a bit weird that people are expected to go around oiling window latches regularly. Is this normal? I have to admit I have never regularly oiled the window latches on any other property I@ve lived in

Should I pay for a handyman? I'm a bit afraid it will involve taking off the whole window or something and cost £££ :(

Or is the landlord taking the P?

[Amilliondifferentpeople]

Good for you. LL sounds like a dick.

[RevoltingPeasant]

Thanks tiger! We didn't know how much it would be as obv the locksmith was working for the landlord/ letting agent.

I simply cannot believe he was to-ing and fro-ing over £45. ffs. We pay him about £800pm in rent. I assumed from the way he was going on it would be hundreds!

Even so after all that I couldn't just offer to pay it. Matter of principle by that point. My email was a masterly piece of passive aggression.

[Curioustiger]

Well done OP and good luck for your house move!

[RevoltingPeasant]

Just thought I'd update and say thanks for all the voices of reason on here!

So the letting agent sent their locksmith out to do a quote and see what the problem was. The locksmith was totally lovely and said that basically the problem was caused by the window ageing and we couldn't have oiled the piece in question. However it was possible we had made it a little worse in trying to shift the stuck bit.

We emailed the LA - briefly and politely - to say we thought it was the LL's responsibility but as a goodwill gesture we would pay part of the costs. If he didn't accept this offer he would need to go fuck himself claim it out of our deposit as we weren't going to engage in further correspondence on this.

Result: LL agreed and is paying part of the costs - which turn out to be a mere £45 as Lovely Locksmith sourced a cheap part himself! We are employing Lovely Locksmith on our new house when we move in 3 weeks. Everyone happy.

Except landlord. Apparently his email agreeing to our deal was so incandescent with rage the LA lady thought it wouldn't be productive to let me see it.

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

Agree with the others; you should not have to pay to repair this. I'll be interested to hear what the response is.

[Amilliondifferentpeople]

Totally sympathise with you on this. I've had a lock repaired by LL but its so wearing trying to sort this stuff out.

Good luck.

[NadiaWadia]

No, maybe 95% are chancers (being generous). Not saying there are no good agents but .... And of course they are on the side of the landlord. Doesn't stop them charging tenants hefty fees though!

Sadly the sector is largely unregulated. Although I believe government are currently looking into changing this. (See Shelter website for details).

[AuntLucyInPeru]

Mateinthree - 99% of agents are not 'unqualified chancers'.
Some of them are qualified, experienced professionals doing their best to facilitate responsible and fair behaviour tenant and landlord. Some of them come onto mumsnet regularly and give free helpful advice to posters.

[TheChaoGoesMu]

Its not your responsibility. Its the landlords. You have nothing in the contract to suggest you are responsible for this. He's a chancer.

[andubelievedthat]

yup , soz to keep being a "downer " re this BUT , who pays ? you and only you ?call in a self employed fitter , call out charge ? then repair ? ok, it looks like its coming down to "who blinks 1st ? but , how the fuck can you be responsible for a latch/bolt not working? bolt works , or it does not work ,i struggle to understand how operating said bolt can make it u/s ?

[RevoltingPeasant]

Yeah you're right God I really hate this type of thing!!

[mateinthree]

Way too many "I think"s in there (one would have been too many). Also you should not be apologizing to the Landlord and his agent for their inability to fulfill their side of the contract. Letting agents are 99% unqualified chancers (so are many landlords, seemingly including yours), you need to be much more assertive with them.

[RevoltingPeasant]

So I sent this insanely long and peacekeeping email to the LA:

Dear X,

I'm sorry to raise this issue yet again (!) but I've been discussing this tonight with my husband and I'm afraid we are not 100% happy with our landlord's response.

When he wrote asking us to start oiling the latches on windows and doors, we did this right away using WD40 throughout the house. However, this had not been indicated to us before and it's honestly something I've never heard of tenants being expected to do regularly.

In looking at our contract, I cannot see anything at all about regularly oiling window latches. The contract says we should 'use the property in a careful and tenantlike manner', which we do, and that if any 'fittings' are 'broken, lost, damaged or destroyed' by us then we need to replace or repair them. But I really don't think anything we've done has broken or damaged the window. We have not been rough with it or used it in any usual way. There are all kinds of clauses in the contract about keeping the garden tidy, maintaining pipes etc but nothing about oiling latches.

We think it is a structural problem with the window, and that it's not our responsibility. We think our responsibility as tenants is met by using the window carefully and normally, and reporting when there is a problem. I think it's also problematic to ask us to get a handyman out, because what happens if we get someone in to do structural work on the windows and then they break something or it goes wrong later? The contract specifically says we shouldn't be doing decorating and suchlike work. Also, I have asked for advice on this on an online forum for tenants and landlords, and most landlords there are advising us that it's not our responsibility and that we would be liable for the results of any work carried out on the property. I don't think we're comfortable with taking that risk or with paying for a window specialist to replace the window, which is what seems to be suggested below.

Many thanks--
OP

[mateinthree]

Tempus, why would the Landlord will care if his tenant has invalid contents insurance or is paying through the nose for heating? No skin off his nose.

[cq]

And anyway, if the uPVC windows are newish then the bolts, latches, fittings etc should still be under guarantee so the LL should just contact the window company and get someone round.

[RevoltingPeasant]

Tempus - yeah! It's been on the latch. I am amazed our heating bills are not through the roof - they have actually been very reasonable.

[TempusFuckit]

It's definitely not your responsibility - have you really left the window open for six months? Or am I reading that wrong?

If so, might be worth making noises about increased energy bills and invalidated contents insurance ...

[mateinthree]

the letting agent is not an impartial go-between

...is what i meant! no edit button in this day and age...

[mateinthree]

The letting agent should have told you it was the LL's responsibility!

What people often forget is that the landlord is not an impartial go-between, they are a proxy of the landlord, ie they are on the landlords side and represent the landlord. Tenants should never go to a letting agent for advice, or believe what a letting agent tells them without verifying it themselves independently.

[BoffinMum]

I am a landlord and would expect to repair this at my expense not yours.

[Curioustiger]

OP, you could go that and it would probably be fine but if there is a further problem I do think he could legitimately ask you to repair that too as you have conducted a potentially unauthorised repair. To cover yourself I would see what the cost is, and then if you're happy to swallow the cost of that repair for an easier life, email the LL and request him to confirm that he approves you undertaking this repair at your own cost, using [named handyman] but that you cannot be held responsible for any further issues uncovered as a result (eg you are happy to fix the latch but you will not be responsible if the frame is found to be leaking).

The reason this is all a bit tricky is because he is not living up to his responsibilities thus rendering the situation more 'grey area' rather than less, iyswim!

[whois]

Totally the LL responsibility. I say that as both a LL and tenant.

[RevoltingPeasant]

Er, wow! Looks like I am not such a weirdo after all.

I was worrying it was one of those bizarre things you suddenly discover everyone else in the world does but you never knew about.

Yeah I always thought upvc windows should be good for years and years, too....

MN is very validating at times

[sonofzod]

your landlord is pulling the wool over your eyes, next he will tell you its your responsibility to retile his roof and repoint his chimney


Tell him straight

[AuntLucyInPeru]

No, this is his job.