This bedroom tax is really a pile of s*** isn't it?

[sweetkitty]

I was thinking about this and the people it affects is so tiny it's not even worth it really is it?

It doesn't affect the disabled and rightly so.

It doesn't affect the grannies and grandpas living in 3 and 4 bed council houses.

It doesn't affect anyone working.

So it only affects the very poorest people who are receiving benefits. And if you are only getting £71 a week to live on an extra tenner is a lot.

Most of these people cannot downsize as there are no homes to downsize to. So they are forced to pay a charge through no fault of their own. Are the government hoping they will move in with family as they cannot afford to live thereby freeing up a council property?

A friend of mine has 3 DC in a 2 bed flat she has been told she had no chance of a council house ever. She doesn't want to privately rent as her rent would go from £220 a month to £500 and she could be thrown out in 6 months.

My mother and her DP live in a huge 3 bed house but as her DP works and pays rent they get to keep it, he's approaching retirement age so they'll just go onto a pension and still keep the house.

The whole housing system in this country is completely screwed isn't it? But don't worry Doreen bought her council flat for 8K and its now worth 100K but no one can afford to buy it.

[usualsuspect]

They are doing it because its all the council house tenants and people who claim HB fault that this country is fucked.

Or so the Media and the Tory spin would have you believe.

I can't believe people are so stupid they think they are doing it for any other reason.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

But you are right on the LHA and at the moment if your rent is cheaper than the LHA you get to keep the difference so the example a few posts up the private renter gets paid to rent privately and that's actual cash in hand that is not expected to be used for rent rather than the 'being paid' that benefit bashers tend to go on about.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Lougle, no you wouldn't because it does not count how the rooms are used or what they could be used for.

Its what it says in the tenancy description and how many bedrooms that states that count.

A 2 bedroom house where one bedroom has been converted to a lift to accommodate a wheelchair user is still a 2 bedroom house

A 3 bedroom house with a dining room a utility room and a massive living room ( granted not many about) but its still a 3 bedroom

A 4 bedroom where every bedroom has been converted into something else even if one room has been turned into a fully functioning bathroom/ wet room is still a 4 bed.

[lougle]

Fargo how cheap they are is a bit irrelevant if the LHA for the area compensates, don't you think?

There is a 4 bed house, in my BRMA, that I could rent for £875 per month, with a LHA that covers it all.

If I were to rent that same house as a 'council' house, I would be 'taxed' for the extra bedroom.

That's my point.

Whatever systems are put in place should be fair and even-handed. These measures are slap-dash and unfair.

[Fargo86]

How many private rented houses are as cheap as social housing of a similar size in a similar area? I don't see the comparison at all.

[lougle]

The situation is not fair.

I'm concerned because we were assessed by the council as being in unsuitable accommodation. We have 3 children, and were living in 3 bedroom house, with lounge and kitchen downstairs, 3 bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs. DD1 has SN and couldn't get upstairs quick enough for the toilet, plus she was very stressed because she was so closed in. The garden was tiny and we lived next to a main road.

The council OT agreed that what we needed was:
3 bedrooms
medium/large garden
one extra room downstairs, to allow DD1 to go somewhere calm to unwind.

A house came up on the 'homechoice' site, we bid, and our application was successful.

Now, the downstairs room next to the lounge could be considered a bedroom. That would mean that our house is a '4 bed' house rather than the 3 bedroom house it was advertised as. We would then be expected to pay £17 per week 'bedroom tax'.

Yet, if we were in private rented accommodation, we can live in a house with as many bedrooms as we like, as long as we can find it cheap enough.

A real example:

LHA for the 'broad rental market area' of Winchester: £207.63/week or £899.73/month.

This 4 bedroom cottage is advertised for £875.

So a family eligible for 3 bedroom house would be able to get full LHA for a 4 bed property, but I would pay £15 per week bedroom tax

[IntheFrame]

It 's a myth that there is a housing a housing shortage - its an affordable housing shortage that's a problem.

There are loads of houses for sale in my town but they are all £400,000 plus. A couple of one bed flats up for £150,000 but who can buy those if they have only one income or children?

Most of the cheap stock in the UK appears to be brought by investors and get privately rented out as it is not where people would choose to buy.

Perhaps LA tenancies should be reviewed every 10 years - 5 years doesn't allow for stability.

[ParsingFancy]

Actually the discount is £100,000 in London.

You know, the place people are being forced out of by the benefits cap.

[JuliaScurr]

these houses are people's HOMES. They are not a skeleton fall-back temporary stop-gap for the inadequate and desperate.
In spite of Kirsty bloody Allsop, buying, trading, decorating and endlessly arsing about with houses isn't the ultimate goal of every single human being. This ludicrous profiteering has led to a housing crisis and a financial bubble

[ParsingFancy]

And here we are, wibbling on again about who shall win or lose the fight over scarce resources...

While at this very moment, government continues to sell off those with resources - with incentives of up to £75,000 discount from market price: Right To Buy.

Doesn't sound like "fairness" really comes into government housing policy, does it? Never mind supporting the vulnerable.

[HelloOutThere]

i thought the main reason was so that older single people in 3/4 bed homes would have to move to more appropriate accommodation - to allow families the chance of getting a suitable house. makes no sense to me why oaps are exempt!

[Step]

Why should there be secure tenancy on social housing? Surely it should be under review every fivce years with the option to rehouse if not so many rooms are needed? Would this solve part of the issue?

[Fargo86]

Someone will probably say that homeowners should also pay the "bedroom tax" next!

[skippedtheripeoldmango]

Kilmuir - Why? Because there isn't enough housing stock; social housing isn't' available for almost anyone any more, and there are other's in greater need, families living in overcrowded accommodation for a start.

It would be lovely to get to stay in your social housing after 30+ years, but is it right to stay when you are hugely under occupying and others are in need? The way things are right now, no I personally don't think that is right.

[Fargo86]

"I honestly don't know what the answer is surely this bedroom tax should be applied to everyone in council housing then not just those claiming benefits? "

How? It's not a tax, it's a reduction in benefits. How do you apply a reduction in benefits to people who aren't claiming benefits?

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Social housing was intended to be used by everyone who wanted it and intended to reside in it.

[ExpatAl]

But why should they get such a cheap deal if they don't need it?
I don't know the answer by the way. I think most of the property in the UK is ridiculously over priced.

[sweetkitty]

I honestly don't know what the answer is surely this bedroom tax should be applied to everyone in council housing then not just those claiming benefits?

Take my mother and her partner, they are living in a LA house with 2 spare bedrooms, they are not in receipt of HB so are not affected but they are paying way below market rate for a 3 bed property, shouldn't there be some sort of incentive for them to downsize? Once of retirement age they will go onto HB via a pension anyway.

I know quite a few of these empty nesters but then again people will say they have lived in a house 30 odd years paying rent why should they move?

[kilmuir]

if her mother DP works and pays the rent why shouldn't he live in the house?????????????????????????????????

[ouryve]

and sweetkitty - reading on, i realise that we are largely on the same page.

My sister, MIL and SIL have all bought their council houses for tiny amounts. It ended up a bit of a millstone around my sister's neck as they ended up with a 2 bed house that they couldn't sell with growing children of opposite sexes - my dad ended up helping them to convert the loft.

There was an entire street of LA housing being sold off when we were looking for this one because they were told they had to dispose of undesirable stock and given targets to meet (the same scheme that has seen entire streets of perfectly solid houses demolished). Bought at auction for about 10K each and now privately rented.

[ExpatAl]

I don't understand where the smaller homes are going to come from. If someone doesn't want to pay and would prefer to move where would they move to?

I don't particularly mind if families are overcrowded - it's what happens when you have to pay for your own home. It was nuts to sell off all the council houses for peanuts. If people could afford to buy them it was time they left the system and paid privately. Why is there such a disparity between social and private rentals?

[IneedAsockamnesty]

And for info.

The ONLY group of disabled people who can obtain exemption are disabled children whose disability creates a unworkable disturbance to a child normally expected to share with them.

But they will not automatically be exempt they just have the right to ask to be.

[sweetkitty]

That's sounds fantastic in principle Julia but would that then mean all the families in private renting moving out into the new LA housing stock and no one wanting to rent from the private LLs, in theory this should push the rents down and in turn deflate the housing market but would this lead to loads of negative equity? The government wouldn't want to upset the millionaire landlords would they at the expense of housing the poor.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

I was not the councils fault they did not build more housing.

The act that made the right to buy also prohibited using the funds to build more.

[ouryve]

It does affect disabled people - room exemption is purely discretionary and based on pretty limited criteria - and in the hands of councils who are having their budgets slashed.

And of course it affects people who are working. Working people on low incomes are entitled to housing benefit too, you know.

Also, there is a severe lack of smaller rented properties for people to move into. They're just not there. People who can ill afford it are being penalised for lack of housing.

I agree that it's a load of crap, but not for the same reasons you think it is.