to think this Telegraph grammar test is wrong?

[Ogooglebar]

The question is 'can you tell from this sentence what sex Evelyn is?'

"I should like to introduce you to my sister Amanda, who lives in New York, to my brother Mark who doesn't, and to my only other sibling, Evelyn."

I think you can't tell but the Telegraph thinks you can tell that Evelyn is male.

How???

Here's a link to the test if anyone's interested.

[Bonsoir]

The sentence lacks clarity (as witnessed on this thread) and therefore, by definition, is not using grammar in an optimal fashion.

[hackmum]

I consider myself a bit of a grammar nerd, and I agree that this example from the Telegraph is terrible.

A comma does make a difference - so "The author Hilary Mantel said..." means something different from "The author, Hilary Mantel, said..." That second version implies there's only one author, and it's Hilary Mantel. (In fact BBC newsreaders make this mistake all the time, and I find it quite irritating. "The MP, Eric Pickles" rather than "The MP Eric Pickles".

Anyway, all that said, it doesn't apply in the Telegraph example because no-one actually speaks like that in real life. In real life you'd insert a comma for breath.

[Fallenangle]

I only got forty something per cent. That was mainly because, by Question 3, I had lost the will to live. Apparently the question setter is vair popular on Radio 5 Live, the home of perfect grammar.

[TolliverGroat]

Tom Chivers agrees it's a bit crap

[TolliverGroat]

92% (I dithered over #10 and plumped for the wrong option).

[FriendlyLadybird]

I got 100%, but only because I'd read the answer to the Evelyn question on here. It is unbearably knobbish and Telegraph-like, with a whole load of assumptions of 'correctness' actually based on Latin grammar, not English. If Grove had his way, we'd all be writing like this.

[Tee2072]

I agree that Evelyn is trans and therefore we still* don't know if s/he is male or female.

[SweetestThing]

83% and former languages student here too.

[Ogooglebar]

I didn't have to sign up amiciss, someone linked to it on fb and it took me straight to it. Maybe where I'm working has a subscription to the Telegraph website though?

[Ogooglebar]

Guitargirl that's very good, I only got 67% and I've studied several languages and am an editor. Just not a very good one it seems

[Guitargirl]

Interesting test - I had 83%, am assuming that's good but I did used to study languages which helps I think.

[MinnieBar]

I think Evelyn is a pre-op transsexual tbh?

[HorryIsUpduffed]

I think it is clearer if you take all the names out.

This is my sister, who lives in NY, my brother who doesn't (at this point grammatically we are expecting "and my brother who does") and my only other sibling.

The sentences are definitely crap though. They have been cobbled together in too much of a hurry without consideration for sense and natural flow.

[Absy]

It is the Telegraph, so using a construction from the late 18th/early 19th Century and refusing to move on sounds about right.

[BigBoobiedBertha]

No I don't get it either. Or maybe I don't agree with the answer but I am not a grammar wizard. Leaving out Mark makes no difference to me. I still wouldn't instantly say Evelyn was a brother so surely grammar has failed due to lack of clarity?

And anyway, given the statement, you have to assume that pictures or the real life people are there in front of you or it really makes no sense. Therefore, it is likely that Evelyn being a brother would be very obvious so the whole premise of the question is kind of irrelevant.

I have sent the link to pedantic DH to see what he makes of it!

And now I shall retire to fret about whether any of my post made sense and was grammatically correct.

[Ogooglebar]

Maybe I should say traditionally correct rather than technically. 'I should like to...' sounds very Jane Austen.

[Ogooglebar]

Absy I think 'I should' is technically correct but no one ever uses it these days and it sounds odd.

[Absy]

"I should like to .." is very clumsy. BAD WRITING. Surely it should be "I would like to introduce you to ..." as "should" implies compulsion, and it doesn't make sense that you are compelled to like to do something.

(rest of the test is blocked at work, so I can't complain further)

[whiteandyellowiris]

oh i got 33% lol

[BreconBeBuggered]

It's pure twattification. I'd have been looking for logic, not convoluted clauses, to tease out the meaning. And as for the commas - is there another sister, who doesn't live in New York, then?

[Ogooglebar]

It does read badly fedup, what's the point in making sure all the puncutation is correct if you're going to write so badly in the first place?

[fedupwithdeployment]

I struggled hugely with that test, as did my former boss (the most pedantic woman on the planet!!) after I emailed her the link. Grammar is important (I am a lawyer!) but those sentences seem to be designed to be deliberately obtuse. Perhaps technically that sentence is correct, along with the explanation, but to me it just reads extremely badly.

[Ogooglebar]

I think the whole test it just knobby showing off. Grammar and punctuation are meant to add clarity and help avoid misunderstandings, not trick or confuse people.