AIBU to blame social science courses for some of this hatred of MrsT

[Grinkly]

I did an OU foundation social science course once. A major part was the detrimental effects of redundancy and unemployment on individuals and the community. It was interesting and spelled out how lives can be devastated by this.

The example was a Yorkshire mining town. It was a good course but I wonder if those, unlike me, who weren't around at the time of the miners' strikes have got a skewed view of why things happened.

Billy Elliot touches on the strikes too I think. But no background info is given, as far as I remember.

Am just amazed at the vitriol - especially by those not directly affected. And it was a long time ago. Don't want to start another debate unless someone has a new point to make.

[ilovesooty]

I agree, LaVolcan

[SelfconfessedSpoonyFucker]

yeah but too much power on either side creates an imbalance.

[gabsid]

I have a Sociology degree - I must really hate her then!

[Lottashakingoinon]

Will bow to your superior knowledge Dawndonna. Have no idea what labour manifesto was then, do know that Kinnock was a hopeless speaker as he droned on (though others say he was good) but his presentation was poor.


Erm, just what ARE you learning in your OU foundation course OP. James Callagham was the PM/Labour Leader in 1979. Then it was Michael Foot THEN Neil Kinnock. And many (not all) people consider his pre 1983 election rallying call ('I warn you' to have been bloody prescient.) as well as even a bit Luthereque. Drone? Poor presentation? I don't think so.

[LaVolcan]

Michael Foot wasn't an inspiring speaker in his latter years. I went to an election talk he gave sometime in the 80s and he went on and on and on about the wonderful things the 1945 Labour government had done. I agreed with it but couldn't help wondering how this would appeal to a first time voter in 1987. They would want to know what the party would do for them now, not how fantastic the party was more than 20 years before they were born.

[Lottashakingoinon]

But Michael Foot wasn't the leader in 1987 either Volcan It WAS Neil Kinnock by then.

Not that, per se, this invalidates your general point of course!

[LaVolcan]

No but he was still going around trying to drum up votes for his party, and I couldn't help think that he was going to fail dismally - which duly happened.

[wonderstuff]

I fucking hate her, i was born in '79, I'm well aware that socialism wasn't working well in 79 and change was needed, but she was so nasty, supporting apaharted, 3 million unemployed, no such thing as society. In every year I have lived the gap between the rich and poor has increased. She didn't seem to care at all about the human suffering she caused. She encouraged this 'I'm all right jack' attitude. Can't stand Blair either.

Today we have working people using food banks, rising utility bills while utility companies make fat profit, a huge lack of affordable housing, these are the basics, food, warmth, shelter and we are at the whim of private companies for them all, and the policies of Thatcher placed us here, Blair is the ultimate Thatcherite and did very little to redress the damage she had done.

I personally am in fairly well paid employment but in private rented housing, so my family have very little security, I can't imagine how awful it must be at the moment for the poorly paid, the sick and disabled. I care about society, I think that collectively we should make sure everyone has access to the things they need, post war some great institutions were set up to facilitate this, during my lifetime these institutions and our ability to collectively support each other has been undermined so that a select group of individuals can become extremely rich. I'm disgusted and saddened by this. That is why I hate Thatcher (and Blair) I'm still gutted John Smith died when he did, I think that was our last shot at a socialist government in my lifetime.

[Lottashakingoinon]

Yes you're right Volcan but I'm not sure all that can be laid at Michael Foot's door (nor were you suggesting it!)

What does tend to get me riled (a bit) is the kind of received (mis)information that implies that Neil Kinnock's poor [sic] droning [sic] rhetoric led the Labour Party to disaster in 1979 when he was still a long way off being the leader! And when he did finally make speeches they were mainly ace just a bit of a shame about Sheffield

[Goal]

I read social sciences as part of my degree and I am a fan, so it certainly isn't universal.

[Grinkly]

I know Jim Callaghan was PM - he came back from his hols and replied 'What crisis?' or similar when interviewed and the whole country had ground to a halt.
Then MT was voted in.
My personal view was that Neil Kinnock could drone on, don't believe he was a poor MP. Someone thought he was good as he was been an EU MP for yonks.
Still think his speeches droned on but that might have been my age then.

[Dawndonna]

Breaking the unions was not a good thing. Yes they did need their activities curtailed. However, we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now, (zero hour contracts etc) if we had stronger unions.

[LaVolcan]

Some unions needed their activities curtailed, but others were pretty good.

We might still have had zero hours contracts because some industries have never been strongly unionised, but it's probably less likely.

[Grinkly]

In theory we need good unions but when I see what the nursing unions are like (pathetic) I'm not sure if it would be the answer.

[SorryMyLollipop]

You are joking of course? I have never studied social science and hated Thatcher.

YABU and bit of an idiot

[Fargo86]

We'd just have fewer jobs if we had stronger unions. Who want to invest in a country where workers are going on strike every five minutes?

[Dawndonna]

Fargo, it doesn't necessarily mean going on strike. That's a somewhat juvenile view.

[Grinkly]

But were you there Sorry or are you just following the leftie UK media version?

I think there is a mysogynistic ?sp attitude to women in the UK. Are there powerful women who are liked??

[Fargo86]

How do unions show their strength without striking?

[Grinkly]

Not sure I would say Mo Mowlem or Anita Roddick were powerful.
Hilary Clinton was not liked imv (but I liked her) and was powerful.

Sorry said I have never studied social science and hated Thatcher - it's interesting to know if she hated her from what she has heard over the years or from what she or a family member suffered when MT was in power.

[wonderstuff]

I don't think that it has anything to do with misogyny, Thatcher didn't appoint women to her cabinet and she put VAT on sanitary products, lets not pretend she was a feminist. There aren't really many powerful women.. I love Glenda Jackson, Diane Abbott, loved Betty Bothroyd.

I'm a teacher and I think that my union is doing well, we are on work to rule, so taking action without striking. They negotiate with government on my behalf on pay, pensions and working conditions. Those who are very anti-union need to look back at conditions before we had unions, it was pretty dire. When I was at uni in the late 90s a young man, Simon Jones was decapitated working on a dock, where there were no unions and very poor health and safety practice, had unions been present the tragedy would have been much less likely. HSE found negligence but no one was held to account. Unions are important.

[Dawndonna]

Mo Mowlem was pretty powerful. Particularly over policy in Northern Ireland.