to think that not considering renting to people on housing benefit is really unfair?

[whattimestea]

If i am being unreasonable then fair enough-if people can explain why then that might help me see things with more perspective and stop me feeling so down and disheartened by everything at the minute.

Basically due to changes to my families circumstances and also to the benefits system as it stands we have no choice but to look for cheaper rental accommodation. That's ok, not disputing that. The problem is that although we're on our housing association list, local council list - of landlords that have registered with them - there is literally nothing that we are eligible for. With local housing agency's tho and estate agents there are about twenty properties in the area that are within the price and spec that we need. BUT we can't get within a sniff of these as they all say 'no housing benefit/DSS. Why is this that without so much as meeting a person you can be completely excluded from even enquiring about a property?

We have rented from our current landlord for 11 years-have never missed a weeks rent (have only claimed HB for previous 9 months). We can provide a guarantor if needed, a deposit, and as many references as required. But it makes no difference they just don't want to know.

I understand from others that certain mortgages and insurance that landlords have on rentals state that they cannot let to benefits claimants? How is this fair to state that the way a person receives their income can make them illegible for housing? You wouldn't be able to state on an advert for a house rental 'will not rent to members of the armed forces/plumbers/shopworkers etc would you? Or would you?!

If after reading replies i see how i am being unreasonable then so be it! Just feeling very demoralised at the moment - like Im banging my head against a brick wall with it all! For the record - my family would be lovely, reliable, trouble free tenants!

[Twentytotwo]

Utter rubbish Bernadette.

Mortgages usually include a condition that you can't rent to those on housing benefit and landlords' insurance is prohibitively expensive if you do. The insurance industry think it's a greater risk.

If you rent to those on housing benefits, even if the council pays the rent directly to you, you're taking a big risk. You could get every penny of rent for three years, have the tenant move on and then the council could decide a year later that the person wasn't actually entitled to housing benefit. The council will then pursue the landlord to get that money back. So the landlord ends up down three years rent and the only remedy the landlord has is to track down the former tenant and pursue a civil claim against them to get the money back.

The council also requires people to stay in a property until they are legally evicted to be eligible for future council housing, probably one of the objections mortgage companies have to DSS tenants. So a landlord who has trouble with tenants or needs to sell for financial reasons ends up having to go through a lengthy process and pay legal fees just to get people to leave when the contract they signed says they should!

[WeAreEternal]

When I asked the insurance companies why they don't allow DSS tenants I was told that they have several issues with DSS that make it more of a risk than someone in paid employment.

The benefits are paid weekly, fortnightly and for weekly, so unlike wages come the 1st of the month when the rent is due the DSS claimant is less likely to have the money there waiting for the rent to go out, whereas someone who works is going to have had their wages just paid, so the money is going to be there waiting.

If for whatever reason you need to evict someone on DSS will be told by the council that they will only be given help if they refuse to leave the property and have to be taken to court. In these circumstances the tenant will often stop paying the rent completely in an effort to save money for their eventual move, and as this process can take up to a year that is a lot of money lost.

[toddlerama]

But it just seems like they're assuming that ALL housing benefit tenants are a risk. Why not base decisions on the facts in front of you, on an individual as opposed to a preconceived idea?

Because insurance works on probability and risk management. That requires generalisation to a degree. HB is a variable in the calculation which pushes the risk too high to make the insurance affordable.

It isn't 'unfair', just unfortunate. The stereotype exists because that has been the experience of the insurers.

[Buzzardbird]

I feel for you what, I really do. The only thing I can recommend is that you try and find someone who can afford to rent to you without the necessary extra insurance, but that would probably be a rare thing to find in this climate.

Hopefully someone will come up with a plan for you. Is it the same with sub-letted properties I wonder?

[WilsonFrickett]

things like this don't exactly make LL's feel confident in the system either, if it's going to be illegal to evict tenants who can't pay their rent due to the HB cap.

[CloudsAndTrees]

If that has just happend to you, there's the clear reason why you are a risky tenant that LLs want to avoid, through no fault of your own.

The government change what benefit you get, and now you can't afford your rent. So if you can't or won't top it up with money from elsewhere, the LL loses money.

[Chattymummyhere]

It's not that different to landlords who state "no children and no pets" in their adverts...

Insurance is an issue on housing benefits and statistically your at a much much higher risk of damage and loss of rent by having a housing benefit tennant than you are one in a full time job that covers the full rent.

We struggled in our first rental had a garentor the landlord was still not 100% till fil offered to pay 6 months in advance..

I personally would not let to housing tennants because I know as a parent if I had a cut in wages that said feed my kids or pay all my rent I would cut my rent payments, which lots of housing tennants will now do..

A lot of landlords are landlords though no choice of their own so need that full rent to cover the mortgage/landlord insurance/gas safety checks and maintenance before they even make a penny which they then pay tax on.. It's not like most just pocket £500+ a month..

Employed professional single trusted highly
Employed family with school aged children trusted highly
Old people trusted
Housing claiments not trusted

Seems to be the general rule, most landlords who would rent to housing you wouldn't want to rent from...

[Twentytotwo]

Also, private tenants have to rely on references from previous landlords to get a new lease. Letting agencies contact them. The council has an obligation to rehouse people even if they trashed the last place they lived. That makes DSS tenants a bigger risk.

[whattimestea]

The change to the car insurance policies then when women - who are statistically safer drivers, less risk, more unlikely to claim etc - are now unable to be offered cheaper car insurance policies, is that considered discriminatory now simply as its a probability based on gender then therefore classed as sexual discrimination? It seems that some things are considered more probable than others but can't see how it is ok for one area of society to fall victim to it and not another? Thinking out loud here!

[BernadetteRostenkowskiWolowitz]

im not talking out of my backside. u can do the right thing or the easy thing. so ironic, bet people on this thread have advised mumsnetters to leave that bastard. then they go back to their real life, where they have three houses to rent house. another poster talked about people on benefits as "these people".
well if somebody trashes your gaf and u wouldnt even consider using your own discretion then perhaps u will have a rethink. any landlord would be lucky to have had be but through their meanness and prejudices they would have ruled me out. but yes it is "easier" to be prejudiced.

[BernadetteRostenkowskiWolowitz]

prejudice like this explains why i decided to forego 95 rent allowance. and privately rent the smallest shabbiest hut i could find. then, my x's solicitor implied i had delusions of grandeur for turning down rent allowance.
take a stand ladies, or step over the bodies on your way to the top of the pole.

[hotcrosbum]

Twentytotwo - We claim HB (like I said only a small amount now that dh is working full time - I am a full time mature student), we rent privately, the council didn't and wouldn't help us out at all. So we have glowing refs from our first landlord, and would from this one too.....we want to move but we know we will face the same problems as we did last time.

We are in the same boat as most HB claimants, renting privately, most will have refs from landlords and letting agents. I don't see how that makes me a bigger risk - my agent and LL can be asked for a ref.

None of my friends had ever claimed anything - nor had I until an unfortunate change in circumstances. They all thought I'd been housed by the council because I'd claimed HB, or thought I was in a housing association home, took me a long time to explain that no, I was on my own in fining a place to rent through a letting agent, just like them.

[Twentytotwo]

So you think someone who is relying on that rent as their income should invalidate their mortgage or pay £££ extra in insurance and risk losing all the rent at a later date if you're lying to the council and not being able to regain possession of their property when the contract ends to do you a favour?

[cjel]

We got round this by going through a third party. Our tenants got someone else to pay rent through their account.

[Twentytotwo]

Sorry, that was to Bernadette not you Hotcrossbum. Mortgage companies and insurance companies still regard you as a higher risk. Your best bet would be to get positive references in advance and hand copies of them in to the letting agent when you apply. The truth is that you are a bigger risk because the council could at any point turn around and say that you're not entitled to that benefit and leave you unable to meet the rent.

[ChippingInIsEggceptional]

Bernadette - text speak is not helping your case.

You are talking absolute bollocks.

[WilsonFrickett]

How exactly should I take a stand Bernadette? Stop insuring my flat so I can rent to HB? Or pass on that extra cost to a tenant who is already in a difficult situation, making my rent above market value? Then you could take a pop at me making yet more cash out of HB claimants to line my (supposedly huge) pockets?

If renting to HB claimants invalidates my insurance and the terms of my mortgage, I'm not going to rent to HB claimants. It is as simple as that. And of course that's unfair to the majority of HB claimants, but on an individual basis there's not an awful lot I can do about it.

[SneezingwakestheJesus]

We pay rent through housing benefit and we lost out on a house because the landlords mortgage wouldn't allow us in it. His house is still available for rent two months later so I think he is struggling with that in the economic climate.

YABU though. Its not some vendetta against people on housing benefit, we are just statistically more risky and the insurance and mortgages that landlords have reflect that.

[missrlr]

now, when i see "no rent allowance" i know it is code for "tenant not declaring this income"
Absolute POPPYCOCK Bernadette.

I do not rent to DSS as the mortgage forbids this, as does insurance for the property which I have to have as it is mortgaged.

HB claimants are usually excluded from mortgage terms end of, due to the absolute inability to get the property back from someone who is living there and not paying in a timely fashion. For the mortgage company the risk is therefore much greater, a year on top of the year of dealing with the defaulting landlord. As the mortgagee you can ask for this to be done but it will require additional bond payments or different mortgage terms (higher interest rates) and usually increased insurance requirements too.

HB claimants have without fail trashed the house, average cost of repairs and this does not include fair wear and tear, £4000 per tenancy. And 2-3 months of not being able to rent the house whilst the repairs are being undertaken. How can you know if this is happening, and I have had to force access to houses to get MANDATORY gas safety checks done. If I had not then I was liable and the insurance was invalid. It's not like the tenant has to pay for this, just open the bloody door and let the workman in!

HB claimants HAVE to be declared to the insurance provider and in most cases you cannot get rent insurance in the event the claimant does not pay because if the claim is fraudulent then the insurance company are liable and if this is years of fraudulent claiming this is many thousands of pounds. Risk is high of this apparently.

HOWEVER do please be aware that sometimes if agencies are used then they have a standard clause that says "no DSS" and if you actually ask them the answer can be different, as they will have to confirm with the landlord that this is the truth.

So - actually ask the agents who are advertising each and every property if this is the case.

I wish you well with your house search.

[SlowLooseChippings]

WeAreEternal If for whatever reason you need to evict someone on DSS will be told by the council that they will only be given help if they refuse to leave the property and have to be taken to court. In these circumstances the tenant will often stop paying the rent completely in an effort to save money for their eventual move, and as this process can take up to a year that is a lot of money lost.

This is what the estate agent told me when I was renting out my house, and we were advised not to accept HB claimants at all. I was renting in another area and we needed to be able to sell the house later when we found somewhere we wanted to buy.

My friend was in a similar situation - renting out a flat owned by her and her husband to a HB claimant with the intention of moving back into it themselves when their child was old enough to attend school/nursery. They had to go to court to evict her eventually - and this despite the lady being "lovely, really, and she kept the place in great condition", but her benefits were reduced and the council told her that if she moved out she would be voluntarily making herself homeless, so she waited to be evicted. And stopped paying rent. Meanwhile my friends were losing money and needed to house themselves and their child too. So it's always a risk.

[whattimestea]

Perhaps HB claimants are considered more risky? Im not sure how you'd collect the insurance data to confirm that though? Genuine question? If its not landlords choice but insurance and mortgage insistence then surely with all the changes regarding benefits at the moment this is a siduation that's going to get worse? Houses standing empty, available for let. Families needing and wanting said housing but being unable to live there. Landlords lose, prospective tenants lose? Rents in private sector are high. Even working couples and families can need a 'top up' to help meet their rent. If as soon as the magic words 'housing benefit' appear you're either discounted automatically or even worse faced with eviction then it all looks pretty dire to me

[whattimestea]

Situation not siduation! That makes me sound like a too cool for school nobhead!

[hotcrosbum]

I had no idea that that I would have to refuse to move out if my Landlord wanted his house back.

I just assumed that we would have to struggle to find another place to live asap and then tell the council a change of address, just like you normally would if you move.

We have a one year lease, the agents said that LL was looking for a long term tenant, but we have to roll the contract over in August, I worry all the time that he will change his mind and want his flat back, especially in this climate, and that we will have the struggle of finding somewhere else to go.

In fact, I would look for somewhere else. I wouldn't want to put my LL through all that trouble and I would want to protect my good references and renting history. It's hard enough as it is.

[hotcrosbum]

We are hoping that when the time comes, we will find another sympathetic LL and agency.

DH works full time, but his bring home wage is exactly the same as the rent, hence we get a small amount of HB each month. I am a full time student as my employment prospects were dire as I was SAHM all the way through my first marriage. I am training to be a mental health nurse.

[whattimestea]

And in response to the post that claimed its the same as stating 'no pets' or 'no children', maybe it would be if EVERY property for rent stated that. Only perhaps 1 or 2 out of a handful would refuse pets/kids/smokers. They ALL say no housing benefit