to think if you have a giant rottweiler you should say so when you invite children to play?

[kawliga]

Or is it up to me, whenever my daughter is invited to play with schoolfriends to ask their parents 'by the way, might you happen to have a giant rottweiler the size of a small tractor in your house'?

This was a friendly dog and dd is not frightened of dogs, but we don't have dogs ourselves so she is also not used to them. This dog, the sheer size of it, could knock a grown man over even if it's just playing. When I arrived to pick her up DD was cowering in the corner although later she told me she had fun playing there, so no harm done. Just feel a bit uneasy. I feel like I should have known so I could say something like 'there's a big dog there but it's friendly so don't worry' before she went there to play. AIBU?

[runningforme]

This just happened. Sickening. And why I still believe that even 'family' dogs and 'softies' should be properly supervised.

family dogs maul toddler to death

[AlanMoore]

DumSpiroSpero I swear that wasn't him! He was a right softy, certainly never bit anyone, I think he was the failed police dog but that could have been Sultan

[bochead]

Our cat was stung twice on it's bum last summer by a wasp. For about 3 weeks afterwards he was absolutely lethal and more than capable of inflicting serious damage on a child. Frankly he was scary for me, and I'm his owner.

Cats aren't that big, yet becuase he was sore, for a while he was dangerous. The law does not hold a cat owner responsible, while the dog owner is called to account. A 10 stone dog in similar circumstances would have been more than capable of killing a child. Often fighting dogs are often in some sort of pain from the effects of their "training" (I've seen the poor things being beaten with metal chains in our local parks to encourage aggression).

There's a good reason the scum of the earth use strong, powerful dogs instead of guns on the streets. (Lower prison sentence for walking down the local high street with one). In the wrong hands they can be lethal weapons. Only a complete idiot fails to recognise this. I say this as a dog lover.

Owning a dog requires the aquisition of a sense of responsibility over the actions of that animal. My first dog was a rescue chihauhua who had to be kept muzzled in public for the first year I owned him, while I waited for the work we were doing with the behaviorist to take effect. (He'd been VERY badly abused). Given the chance he'd have bitten everyone in sight bar me. Yet a few years later with the right training and supervision he went onto become a therapy dog - capable of being taken onto a children's hospital ward.

Complacency on the part of the owner can result in a much loved family family pet having to be put down. Sadly some children nowadays are virtually feral and have no idea at all that animals feel pain. How to treat animals is as much a life skill as cooking, or reading yet I'm always a bit suprised at how some otherwise very nice parents fail miserably to teach children not to torment living creatures.

I suppose I'm trying to say there is a sensible common sensical medium between "all dog owners are evil!" and "all those who don't like strange dogs slobbering all over them are completely irrational".

[orderinformation]

Yanbu

[DumSpiroSpero]

Alan I have just realised the friend's dog in question was also a Sabre and it happened in the 80's!

[DumSpiroSpero]

Can I ask why? If you're ok with bull breeds what have you got against GSDs? As a breed they tend to give plenty of warning if they're going to bite...

Purely personal experience - the bull mastiffs and staffy have never attacked me.

I was attacked twice at ages 11 and 13, both times by German Shepherds, neither gave any warning whatsover.

On the second occasion the owner was not known to me and was at fault. Bruised and lacerated ankle, A & E & tetanus jab.

On the first occasion, I was attacked by our neighbour's family pet who I had known for over three years. I was friends with their DD and constantly in and out of their house during that time with no issues with the dog at all. On this particular occasion it followed it's owner to the door and went straight for my stomach. Thankfully I had a chunky belt on and thanks to the owner grabbing it's collar in the nick of time it got a mouthful of thick leather. A second or two later and no belt...not so good.

[Snowme]

Dogs aren't fully domesticated. They still have wild animal base instincts.
The people who claim 'Oh my dog's a softie, he wouldn't hurt a flea!' have the kind of complacency that puts my guard up.

I wouldn't allow my children into a house unsupervised with a dog.

As children, we had German Shepherds, and no matter how familiar or 'family friendly' they were, they still had no qualms about nipping us or growling terrifyingly if we irritated them.

Suggesting a breed has a defined, guaranteed behavioural pattern is about as stereotyped as suggesting the same about humans. Even dogs have off days.

And yes, although the sheer size of large breeds makes me wary, our Nan had a teeny weeny chihuahua that gave a nasty nip!

[theodorakisses]

I don't think the breed is important but as the owner of 3 dogs and fosterer of a billion strays, I would never, ever have the dogs around visitors with or without . I am lucky in that I have plenty of space for them to be kept separately without having to resort to locking them in a spare room. I can't think of anything worse than any accident, even a child just being bowled over and am fastidious about it. Not everyone likes dogs and I would never expect my lifestyle to be inflicted on other people.

[MeerkatMerkin]

MidniteScribbler what a joy your dogs sound! You must be so proud. :)

[Emilythornesbff]

olgaga
Agree.

[FourArms]

Interesting reading. We've got 2 dogs this week as we're dog sitting but haven't mentioned this to parents of visiting children. They're both dogs who are familiar with children.... One (old lady whippet) will take herself away from the children. The other (Alaskan Malamute - Husky type) is younger and much more playful. One visitor who is not used to dogs did say the malamute wouldn't leave her alone but she was (unconsciously) giving the dog signals that she wanted to play. My children are used to this dog and don't do this. Thought provoking.

[olgaga]

bochead, if only all owners were like you!

AlanMoore

Yesterday's tragic case is similar to others in recent years in that the child killed was not resident in the home where the dogs attacked.

This is a key issue. However "family-friendly" the dog, IMO they should always be kept well away from visiting children.

As I said earlier, it's the dog owners who insist their dogs are gentle, soft and friendly and couldn't hurt a fly who are the most dangerous to know.

kawliga points out that

It jumped on me when I arrived to pick her up, not in an aggresive or scary way but I felt how strong and heavy it is and that was a new experience for me, not unpleasant but also not very comfortable.

The dog was not locked way, it was running about the house while I was there.

I was shocked to be met by it at the door.

All of these points illustrate that these dog owners are simply not responsible. They are not putting the safety of visiting children first.

I think OP has been very reasonable in her description of this event, and in her concern. In circumstances like that, I would make a point of having playdates with this friend at my house and explain to the owner that I simply wasn't comfortable with DD being in a set-up where playing children had to encounter a large dog wandering around. You are allowed to be polite and assertive about these things!

In fact I do always ask whether DDs friends have a dog. Many of her friends do, but they are usually small, manageable family pets and a few of them are very old and very quiet. But I always make a point of telling the friend's mum that DD is very nervous around dogs so they can either introduce them carefully, or shut the dog away from the children.

Our local craft shop has a resident dog which is really sweet and we have made many visits there as I have encouraged my DD to realise that not all dogs are the same as the one who gave her an early terrifying experience. However the damage is done - she will never be comfortable around dogs.

[AlanMoore]

sorry, that was in response to DumSpiroSpero's post - not having a go, just interested! (as a child I used to get most offended to people's reaction to my beloved Sabre (it was the 80s!), he was huge but the most lovely gentle dog).

[AlanMoore]

Can I ask why? If you're ok with bull breeds what have you got against GSDs? As a breed they tend to give plenty of warning if they're going to bite...

[bochead]

Yes they should tell you.

We have one little friend who can't come over to play as he's very, very allergic to animal dander and our home is a shoebox. I don't want to make anyone ill! Some children are terrified of dogs and I will not be the one to force them.

From my perpspective as a dog owner it is very helpful to me to know if a child is "dog trained". our whippet is as gentle as anything but even the gentlest most docile animal could potentially turn if poked in the eye by a child who just doesn't know better.

If I know the child is not used to animals I can do a proper introduction - showing the child it's nice to stoke gently but not to prod the animal with pointy things etc. I also let all children know that if the dog retreats to her bed after a game they must not follow and disturb her as she needs a wee break.

I can basically ensure that the experience is a fun, pleasant one for animal and child. Unless I'm sure a child is "dog-trained" after observing a series of visits, I ensure that the dog is NEVER left alone with the child if I need to pop to the loo or anything. As the adult I'm 100% responsible for what happens in my home, not the child and not the dog.

It might sound like I'm being overfussy but people forget even well-trained, superb family pets feel pain & can react.

[DumSpiroSpero]

Yanbu, I would definitely want to know &, probably meet the dog myself before letting my DD go round there.

I will admit that is sure to me having had 2 or 3 bad experiences with dogs as a child/teen.

That said, we have various friends with bull mastiffs, boxers, a visla and a staffy cross. The only dog that has ever snapped at DD (twice) is my BIL's cocker spaniel.

I would really struggle if we were invited anywhere with a German Shepherd though tbh.

[Emilythornesbff]

So of they had said they had a dog you could have said "oh, that's nice
I assume you keep it in a separate room when children are playing here."

[AlanMoore]

I wouldn't necessarily say I had a dog (don't have one at the moment) but I would keep my dog safely shut away from visiting children. I grew up with dogs and know how to behave around them but many children don't - for example my own DD is a bit scared of dogs and therefore I try and keep her away from them unless I know the owner and they can vouch for the dog's temperament, then I supervise her ultra closely.

Children make funny high pitched noises and sudden movements and do things that a lot of dogs don't like, eg try to hug them, pull ears/tails and I don't think it's fair to dog or child to put them in a situation that could be dangerous.

We have a cat and the dc are not left alone with him in case they hurt/scare him and he reacts in turn.

Yesterday's tragic case is similar to others in recent years in that the child killed was not resident in the home where the dogs attacked. If you notice it is almost always grandma's dog/auntie's dog/friend's dog, or a very young baby, so a child unfamiliar to the dogs.

[Emilythornesbff]

Apologies for shocking spelling (feeding baby while using I pad)

[Emilythornesbff]

YANBU

I have no time for irresponsible dog owners.

Others have already given the stats about the frequency of dog attacks and the risks to young children.

Even if the dog is friendly the fact of its size means it could seriously injury a child by knocking it over. The claws of dogs are not retractable and easily slice a deep permanent scar into the face of a child jut by "friendly" pawing.
Not only should they have let you know so you could never darken their door talk to your dd beforehand, but they haven't trained it not to jump up!!
WhT's the matter with them?
The dog should have been shut away from peopl if it can't be trusted to not jump up.

Oh, and the one thing that all the dogs in the news who've fatally attacked children in someone's home have in common is that they were "friendly family pets" who'd never done it before.

Fucking dogs! or rather irresponsible owners!

So, to be cear: YANBU.

[spottyock]

YANBU

[MrRected]

YABU to have expected to be told that they had a dog.

They, however, WBVVU by not locking the dog up for the duration of the playdate. I have two meek & mild whippets - truly the woosiest dogs to EVER walk this earth. I still put them in the garden, away from the children when we have kids over for a play.

I would never forgive myself if there was an incident and one of the dogs scratched (reasonably likely as they are very affectionate and often gently jump up) or even worse bit a visiting child.

[midori1999]

YABU.

If you think parents should tell you they have a dog (or cat or other furry) due to potential allergies/dislikes, then that fine. It's unreasonable to think they should tell you that the dog is a Rottweiler. They don't come in 'giant' versions anyway, they are a large breed. not a 'giant' one.

I have to admit, I probably wouldn't tell parents I had dogs if their children were coming round. Most people who know me know I have dogs anyway, but I don't like to subject my dogs to children I don't know very well, as I have no idea what other DC may think is an acceptable way to behave towards dogs and I don't want children trying to cuddle/prod/poke them. My own DC know how to treat my dogs respectfully. So, if I have visiting children, I put the dogs in the utility room.

[MidniteScribbler]

runningforme, why do you need to tell someone there if a dog is you're a responsible owner? A responsible owner is someone who would keep the dog away from a child who was scared, and wouldn't allow them to jump all over children. Just because I own five dogs doesn't mean a child who is frightened of dogs shouldn't come here. I'm smart enough, and responsible enough to keep my dogs away from the children, particularly if they are scared.

Where do you draw the line? I have a dam, but it's fully fenced, same as if it were a swimming pool. Do I have to tell parents that? The neighbours cat sometimes comes and suns itself on the porch. Does that need to be disclosed? Native birds come and sit in the trees outside my verandah. Better tell someone in case the children don't like birds. It gets ridiculous. Surely you either trust the person to keep your child safe, or you decline the invitation (or stay). Isn't that just common sense?

[runningforme]

YANBU anyone who says otherwise is one of them lot who put animals before people. It's just polite and would give you the opportunity to decline if you have a child who is scared