to be worried about Universal Credit

[idiuntno57]

I am in the lucky position of not needing to claim this but I am so worried about its implementation.

Its coming in in the Autumn and is going to be an online only, monthly, postdated payment. It will be paid to one adult in the family unit.

All well and did if you are god at managing your money, internet literate and in a stable relationship. But in the real world....

How are the most vulnerable in society going to have a chance with this?

Already the council tax changes are coming in and as far as I understand people are confused and shell shocked by it. UC is much bigger and no one is prepared.

[expatinscotland]

We have meters. We are working poor and rural. Two days now, the ferries have been off to bad weather, those who need them to get to work are stuffed, especially if they are on shift, don't have a car and the alternative, a very, very long one on very limited public transport (and not on Sundays), cannot get across. And this is still the mainland. Move? To where? They are all on at least partial housing benefit and now it's a landlord's market, finding one who will take LHA and kids is a joke in even the meanest neighbourhoods.

We are okay, but others we know are not already.

This is a scourge, a scourge on the poor and working poor. These people are not about those who want to work hard but about the rich and themselves, with their 'budget' for food of £130/week.

Why are people standing for this?

[expatinscotland]

They won't be, soon enough. We know people who are already stealing food and others selling things on the black market. This is a goldmine for Eastern European and Russian organised crime, even out here in the back of bloody beyond. They are already selling food! Sky, fags, bingo, my arse! It is freezing and gas and power are gone through the roof.

[SneezingwakestheJesus]

Is it pointless to hope that the pilot scheme might show what a shitty idea this barren month is so they rejig stuff a bit? Not that that would help the poor guinea pigs :(

[SouthernComforts]

Ah ok. I'm Rochdale (sort of) . Whether that is greater manc or not is a bit of a grey area.. my county is technically Lancashire..
I suppose I'll have to just wait and see.

[YourHandInMyHand]

Scary stuff.

I think I am going to put a pound or two on a supermarket saver card each time I do a shop, that will I will have a way to get some food in if times are hard.

[YourHandInMyHand]

All these families that will end up homeless - no roof over their heads and no food to put in their kids bellies, where exactly will they go? Workhouse that's where

[midastouch]

Im actually looking forward to it, we get money in 2 different accounts on 3 different says one weekly one fortnightly and one 4 weekly, plus DP wages monthly, it gets so confusing! i think it'll make monthly direct debits easier rather than having to put a bit away each week. Its not hard to budget your money for food, people that work and are paid monthly manage it.

[Booyhoo]

no, not hard at all when you have the money! what do you expect people to do for those 4 weeks in between the last weekly payment and the first monthly payment? and what about every month after that when they are trying to play catch up with the arrears they built up in that first month?

[bochead]

expatinscotland - RIOTS?

Now I am worried, as sadly I agree with that over the top American guy Gerald Celente "when people have nothing left to lose, they lose it". Most Mums will lose it if they can't feed their kids for a month, no matter how placid they are normally.

Looked again at that broth recipe - kidney beans are a nightmare for hardness when they get old so will require soaking overnight before cooking with the rest of the ingredients. To make the broth nutritionally complete you'd only need to add vit B12 (from meat so perhaps bovril?) & some greens, (nettles are great if you are desperate enough, but cabbage feels more normal). Food fatigue though is a real issue, especially for the very young and very old.

I didn't know supermarkets still did those saver cards - thats a great tip, thanks for that. £1 a week is doable.

[bochead]

midastouch - so presumably you are good to go on just your DP's wages alone for a month or two, until any UC payments arrive? What concerns me most is not the standard first month's wait, but the inevitable admin cock ups that'll leave some families waiting up to six by the time all the IT teething errors are sorted. My neighbour was left high and dry by a mahoosive tax credits cock up when that came in, and it took her years to get herself straight again. The UK does not have a good track record for big IT projects & this whole new scheme is totally dependent upon one.

[expatinscotland]

A remedy for hardness in any dried pulse is to soak them with a teaspoon of bicarb well mixed into the water.

Riots? Quite honestly, I don't see why not. I know people who steal food and sell what is probably stolen food, even out here.

[expatinscotland]

We're okay. We have Bank of Mum and Dad, too. That doesn't make it okay for everyone else!

[expatinscotland]

Big Society, my arse! They will do nothing. There is already the underlying belief, that any poverty in children is the fault of the parents.

[idiuntno57]

so AINBU
But what can we do about it?

[threebats]

I agree with expatinscotland Ever since the Conservatives and Lib Dems have come to power (decided behind a closed door over negotiations and nothing to do with the actual voters of the country) - the key words have been 'work harder and get on.' Which in its actuality is hard to do when the majority of this country are working harder but not to get on - to stand still, to keep their heads above water as wages fail to rise in line with expenses. And Benefits? The very words, a benefit claimant, has suddenly become something to despise. Thanks to Tory and Lib Dem's an almost frenzy has been whipped up against those that are claiming benefits. It is largely seen today that poverty is not existent in this country because its not Africa and we do not have to walk 8 miles to a filthy river and drink out of it. Therefore if you can not feed your children, its nobody's fault but your own. I would charge a lot of children are fed but the parents go without and a lot of children in this country today are cold, freezing - no money for heat. That is fuel poverty - that is poverty. But this is not Africa, so.... Nobody will stand up and fight this as the country has been told, by those in power, its the fault of the parent if the child goes without. Its neglect not poverty. The parent ought to work harder and get on...
Universal Credit - well, something has to be done about benefits as, have you ever tried to fill out a form? You'll need all afternoon, a large, strong coffee or three, headache pills, tissues and a strong disposition. The system needed simplifying, how can anything be universal when people and circumstances are unique?

One thing I am heartily tired of though is the way mothers are paying for the sins of the fathers - men who bugger off without paying a dime in child support or paying so little its a farce and the mother then claiming benefits to manage and she is the person who is slagged off for it. She is the person others say 'she should not have had children' about. Those men ought to be rounded up and castrated.

[threebats]

YANBU Op - I agree with you, as to what to do about it? Is there anything we can do about it? There is no consultation with people - we are simply told - this is how its going to be right now, I suggest you all work harder to get on...

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

YABU. There are always some people who, however they get their income, will make a mess of it, budget badly and/or make poor spending decisions. However, just because someone claims benefits, I don't it should be assume that they are financially inept. That would be patronising in the extreme.

[idiuntno57]

I am not sure it is patronizing to say that some people aren't going to bring able to cope.

How do you fill out a form that my take more than hour if you don't have broadband or even a computer? Libraries have computer but like it or not there are a lot of people out there for whom this is going to be very difficult and there is going to be fallout: homelessness, petty crime and a bigger gap between have and have not.


I just feel we have lost any sense of what being in a civilised society should mean.

[idiuntno57]

sorry be not bring

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I really don't accept that 'a lot of people' can't fill out a form or can't get someone to help them fill out a form. Someone claiming UC is, by definition, already claiming a range of things like tax credits, housing benefit and so forth ... all of which require multiple form-filling, visits to local authority offices, calling hotlines. They then go on to manage multiple income payments, some of them weekly, 4-weekly, calendar monthly... and use this to pay multiple bills. This takes a lot more skill arguably than someone paid once a month and settling bills once a month.

So I'm sorry but I do think there is an element of middle-class snobbery here assuming that large numbers of people in receipt of benefits are either too thick to cope or will end up becoming criminals

[dementedmumof6]

As a self-employed single mum i'm terrified, been reading up and obviously with tax credits its an average wage over the tax year with uc its a monthly figure, and some months i won't make any money as i have big outlays (ie have to buy stock) so they months i'm not entitled to anything

[bochead]

It suprises me the number of people who are unable to grasp that no matter how skilled you are at managing money, if you have NO money then you can't manage it.

It worries me that many don't grasp that the best private insurance policies cannot protect you against your child developing a disability or your husband abandoning you until it's too late. Access to social housing is a thing of the past in most areas for those who default on their mortgages, which HB doesn't cover. You'll be considered to have made yourself intentionally homeless.

We are in the middle of the greatest financial recession for a century. Many, many formerly middle-class wage earners have been made redundant, and many more will before this is all over. The job centre if you haven't visited one before to make a claim is a serious shock to the system! I have yet to encounter a more soul destroying place/experience.

Those who are being worst hit are people with caring responsibilities (a single mother is not as flexible about staying at the office till 10pm), the over fifities, those with disabilities, homeowners (less mobile). Many married sahm don't realise that if their husand's abandon them, then there is NO effective mechanism to ensure that their children recieve maintenance. It's OK to abandon your kids in 2013. I've come across some very sorry tales of good women in their forties whose marriages have broken down through no fault of their own over the years.

Many of those currently driven to use food banks are in work. The cost of transport, home heating, basic groceries etc are all rising faster than individual's incomes. If you lose your job in the current you are unlikely to find another that matches your previous salary.

Many members of todays underclass, are the descendants of the families that were broken forever under Thatcher, when the heavy manufacturing and mining employment their communities had relied on for generations disapeared forever. Whole towns were thrown on the scrap heap, never to recover. Looking at the employment prospects of today's young people I worry that we are in the process of creating another intergenerational social disaster that our Grandkids will have to cope with.

I do hope we won't see more riots - it's the last thing this country needs The "I'm all right Jack" mindset hasn't protected many middle-class in other European nations from the wider social ramifications of widespread financial breakdown.

[Upsy1981]

Why is it so hard to understand? No one on here has said that benefits claimants are too thick to be able to budget or will all become criminals. What I have taken from the thread is that suddenly during the transition period you will be expected to make your last JSA (or whatever benefit you are claiming) payment, which you would usually receive fortnightly and budget for accordingly, suddenly last for a month until your new UC payment starts. This is not an inability to budget. You cannot budget nothing. If someone told me my wages would suddenly have to last me twice as long as usual I would be up shit creek, nothing to do wirh being in benefits, being thick or whatever. And unfortunatelt, when people get desperate, they act in desperate ways so normally law-abiding citizens would turn to crime to make money to feed themselves and their kids. Again, not because they are benefits claimants, but because the benefits system has made them desperate.

[Upsy1981]

Sorry for typos. Really should proof read!

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

From the original post "All well and did if you are god at managing your money, internet literate and in a stable relationship. But in the real world...."

That says plain and simple that the OP is worried about people who can't manage money, aren't internet literate and are 'unstable'. Whether the UC is adequate in absolute money terms is a completely different thing.