This Judge is unbelievable. The case is horrific but he also blames her? Murder of Carmen Miron Buchacra

[vivizone]

I am so angry. How is this possible?

7 years for killing your partner with a 7 week baby because as Judge said:

'I accept what caused you to lose self control was the cumulative effect of emotional abuse by Gaby over a significant period.

Because they had been arguing by text all day. So clearly she abused him.

What planet are these Judges from?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2297700/Financial-advisor-strangled-PHD-student-girlfriend-death-brutal-assault-recorded-friends-voicemail-jailed-seven-years.html

[moonabove]

Thought it seemed odd - thanks for that.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Actually Tom that is a very good point. Many men do experience the very idea that a woman is cleverer than them as emotional abuse.

And so obviously a male judge will sympathise with that.

Someone else mentioned the dennis waterman view of the world.

It really isn't that unusual.

[moonabove]

The judgement was given in a magistrates court. I see that the link give to complain about low sentences refers to judgements in Crown Court. Would this case apply?

[flippinada]

It does read a bit like that Tom.

[TomDudgeon]

It sounds like the judge thinks a woman being more intelligent than their partner is her being psychologically abusive

[moonabove]

"a person of D's sex and age, with a normal degree of tolerance and self-restraint and in the circumstances of D, might have reacted in the same or in a similar way to D."

In fact I would argue that even someone who did not have a 'normal' degree of tolerance and self-restraint would not have reacted with the appalling and calculated violence of this man.

The family's reaction is so painfully dignified and restrained. Like them I hope this man will suffer from the consequences of his actions because the legal system has certainly failed to punish him.

[flippinada]

Running I think that's the crux of it for me.

The transcript of the attack is just so incredibly disturbing.

[flippinada]

The short answer to that is no bruffin.

And once again, if you are going to address me directly, please have the courtesy to use my correct username. Thank you.

[runningforthebusinheels]

Moonabove - I agree.

Bruffin - she refused to let him in. He threatened to batter down the door - so she opened the door. That better?

He then - and let's be clear here - this was all recorded on a voice-mail, so "lying" really doesn't come into it - unleashes a horrific attack on the mother of his 11wk old baby.

"Mother-of-one Gaby can be heard pleading for her life as Keene punches her, telling her to shut up or 'you will be dead'.

He can be heard snarling: 'Why are you crying?

'What the f is your problem? What have I done to you today? Carry on like this and I'm going to end up in prison because you will be dead.

'I may kill you because you are a f t.'

During the trial Michael Fitton, QC, prosecuting, told how Keene first tried to strangle Gaby using a dressing gown cord before switching to an electrical cable to ensure her death.

That's a perfectly understandable response is it? How many men do you know who would react like that?

[bruffin]

Flipenda have you just come back on this thread just to have ago at me? lovely

what else are you lying about?"

That's just silly.
No its not, its just proves that people are reading what they wanted to read not what happens

[moonabove]

Thank you Dreaming for that reference to the law on 'loss of control'. Reading it I actually think it proves the point I was making in that 'loss of control' is can not be properly defined.

Partial defence to murder: loss of control(1)Where a person (?D?) kills or is a party to the killing of another (?V?), D is not to be convicted of murder if?

(a)D's acts and omissions in doing or being a party to the killing resulted from D's loss of self-control,
(b)the loss of self-control had a qualifying trigger, and
(c)a person of D's sex and age, with a normal degree of tolerance and self-restraint and in the circumstances of D, might have reacted in the same or in a similar way to D.

Surely (c) would be the strongest element in the judgement? The majority of men in these circumstances would not have reacted in this way. If they did they would be even more murders of women by their partners than the current unacceptable level.

[flippinada]

So breaking down the door would support the "loss of control" defence.

MayorQuimby those cases referred to above are horrific.

[flippinada]

I don't think how he how got in is that relevant really, is it?

I mean, if he opened the door in the normal fashion and then strangled her to death, how does that make it better? In fact if he opened the door calmly and then went about his murderous business that sounds worse as it suggests he was in control.

"what else are you lying about?"

That's just silly.

[ElegantSufficiency]

Bruffin, It was mentioned upthread that the judge mentioned that, that that was why the judge understood {?} his loss of control.

[bruffin]

seen as mitigating circumstances for him to batter down her door and murder her in a most violent way.

He didnt bash down the door, and if you are making up facts like that up what else are you making up.

[runningforthebusinheels]

Running, those remarks by the Judge are sentencing remarks, so made after the verdict. He was bound by the verdict of the jury when passing sentence. I don't believe we have heard anything of his summing up to the jury before they reached his decision.

I think my major problem with this is the low sentence this man received.

I also think those judge's words, whether used in summing up or in sentencing are very telling - angry texts and threatening to leave a partner - where evidence has been heard that he was actually physically abusive to her - are seen as mitigating circumstances for him to batter down her door and murder her in a most violent way.

Anyone reading the transcript of the recorded voicemail cannot possibly believed that his behaviour was justified?

[mayorquimby]

"MayorQuimby, that seems to be happening a lot though. I know you're Irish. You will have heard of the woman who stabbed her partner 60 times and she got manslaughter. Once? ok manslaughter. The next 59 times?"

I sat through a good deal of that trial. It was an horrific matter. She had abused him for years as well, she was a deeply disturbed woman.

I take your point that it does seem you can no longer murder a spouse it's almost always manslaughter, as with so much in matters which go to trial it comes down to the jury and what they accept as fact.
Maybe people find it easier to settle on manslaughter, or maybe (as has been seen on this thread) in matters of spousal/partner killings jurors feel that there will always be more to a story than they are told so convince themselves there is some "grey area"
Without being in the jury room it's very hard to decipher what is behind the trend

[bruffin]

"The abuse was supposed to have been that she had been threatening to take the child away. How long could that possibly have been going on for when the child was 11 weeks old. "

Where does it say it was only since the baby came? the report i read said that was a culmination of long term psychological bullying.

[Kiriwawa]

Yes, he didn't actually smash it down. He threatened to. Apologies.

[ElegantSufficiency]

Bruffin, punished appropriately.

The abuse was supposed to have been that she had been threatening to take the child away. How long could that possibly have been going on for when the child was 11 weeks old.

[runningforthebusinheels]

Also, I agree with pp's that it is absurd to compare this case with that of either Kiranjit Ahluwalia or Francine Hughes.

Both the above had suffered years of physical violence (and in Kiranjit's case sexual abuse) at the hands of their partners.

Comparing those cases to this, with Paul Keene getting maybe a good tongue-lashing, and a few angry texts - which were as a result of him being out drinking (an amount that could floor an ox) all day, when he had left her at home with an 11wk old baby, is unbelievably crass.

[DreamingOfTheMaldives]

Running, those remarks by the Judge are sentencing remarks, so made after the verdict. He was bound by the verdict of the jury when passing sentence. I don't believe we have heard anything of his summing up to the jury before they reached his decision.

[bruffin]

surely losing control should still be punished though.
It has, he is going to prison.

and who said it was only since the baby came along?

As said too many people making assumptions without knowing the full facts other than the little they have read in the paper.

[ElegantSufficiency]

surely losing control should still be punished though.

wrt Gaby, their dd was only 11 weeks old. How long could the threat have been going on for. NOt that long.