To think that this is treating these elderly people like children?

[togglebobble]

I don't work with the elderly, so if I'm wrong, please enlighten me and I shall happily stand corrected

But, I was watching the local news this evening, and there was a piece on about a local care home. There was a bit where a few of the residents spoke about recent closures of other homes. They spoke clearly, and eloquently.

Yet they were given cups of tea in grey, plastic, two handled cups. Not unlike the ones I give my toddler DC.

I understand that a few of them might be a little unsteady, but you can pick up cups and saucers from Ikea or even charity shops really cheaply. I know my Gran's care home served hot drinks in normal cups.

AIBU to think this is a bit... Well, not very nice actually? They are adults, fgs

[idshagphilspencer]

Yy badidea

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

cory may well be right, but it's very difficult.

I know for certain my gran benfitted from being able to sip all of a third of a glass of wine from a pretty wineglass with her meal. It made her feel as if she was being civilized. Likewise drinking from proper china cups, even when it got to the point we had to hold her hand while she drank.

It's obvious that this would be hugely labour intensive but doesn't mean it's not sad to see people infantalized, even if in their best interests.

[Pickles101]

YANBU. I worked in a care home for a short amount of time - I quit. I could not hack it. It killed me to see capable, intelligent adults being treated like babies. Awful.

[Pickles101]

(Plus, it is very different to recognise you have bad joints/find it easier to cope with a plastic cup than to having a demoralising assumption made about you & put immediately into action, consent or no consent)

[ssd]

when my mum died I went through her purse and found a shortened edition of this poem, I cried when I read it, she was 85 when she died.

Its written by an old lady in hospital and it should be on every wall in geriatric wards.



" What do you see, nurse, what do you see?
What are you thinking, when you look at me
A crabby old woman, not very wise.
Uncertain of habit, with far-away eyes,
Who dribbles her food and makes no reply.
When you say in a loud voice "I do wish you'd try!

Who seems not to notice the things that you do.
And forever is losing a stocking or shoe.
Who, unresisting or not; lets you do as you will.
With bathing and feeding, the long day to fill.
Is that what you're thinking, is that what you see?
Then open your eyes, you're not looking at me.

I'll tell you who I am as I sit here so still!
As I rise at your bidding, as I eat at your will.
I'm a small child of 10 with a father and mother,
Brothers and sisters, who loved one another.

A young girl of 16 with wings on her feet,
Dreaming that soon now a lover she'll meet.
A bride soon at 20 ? my heart gives a leap,
Remembering the vows that I promised to keep.

At 25 now I have young of my own
Who need me to build a secure happy home.
A woman of 30, my young now grow fast,
Bound to each other with ties that should last.

At 40, my young sons have grown and are gone,
But my man's beside me to see I don't mourn.
At 50 once more babies play around my knee,
Again we know children, my loved one and me.

Dark days are upon me, my husband is dead,
I look at the future, I shudder with dread.
For my young are all rearing young of their own.
And I think of the years and the love that I've known.

I'm an old woman now and nature is cruel,
'Tis her jest to make old age look like a fool.
The body is crumbled, grace and vigor depart,
There is now a stone where I once had a heart.

But inside this old carcass, a young girl still dwells,
And now and again my battered heart swells.
I remember the joy, I remember the pain,
And I'm loving and living life over again.
I think of the years all too few ? gone too fast,
And accept the stark fact that nothing can last.
So open your eyes, people, open and see,
Not a crabby old woman, LOOK CLOSER, SEE ME.

[amillionyears]

The older people I have visited in homes wouldnt have been able to manage china cups.
They couldnt manage them for a few months before they went in there either.

[amillionyears]

They were nursing homes on the whole.

[Writehand]

YANBU. Not at all. I was at a party at the weekend to celebrate my parents' 60th wedding anniversary. Half a dozen of the original guests (all well over 80) were there enjoying themselves as part of a large family gathering. Their best man, now 85, made a very funny speech.

All of them have got all their marbles, and they're all very old. My folks are in reasonable shape but I'm all too well aware that if their health fails they may end up with some arse - either in hospital or a care home - treating these intelligent, successful mature adults as if they were infants. It's a real concern to anyone who loves people who happen to very old.

[lustybusty]

ssd love that poem, always brings a tear to my eye.
Am I seeing a gap in the market... A beautifully printed (maybe flowers, or world's best granny/grandpa), plain white, thin, two handled plastic cup? One that LOOKS like fine bone china, but that is lighter and will bounce?

[Trinpy]

Exactly lusty, care homes have no option but to give toddlers sippy cups because an adult equivalent does not exist.

I work in a care home and there is a member of the kitchen staff who insists on giving a woman with terrible arthritis a heavy china teacup with a tiny handle that she can't grip on to. Poor woman can't hold her cup to drink her tea but she's far too polite to speak up .

I agree however that there is a real problem with infantalising the elderly in our society - not just in care homes. It has become a culture in our society and I think most people do it without even realising.

[Sunnywithshowers]

My DH has MS which affects his hands. He may end up (as a middle aged man) drinking coffee from something like that because of his poor grip and safety issues.

I hate people being infantilised, but I think YAB a bit U to judge the home on the basis of a few cups.

[PercyIsGreen]

You are confusing mental agility with physical agility. Yes sure we would all like to drink out of a china cup but if someone suffers from Parkinson's, MS or dementia then they drink out of a vessel adapted to their needs. I work with the elderly and their intake of fluids is vitally important. Why do you associate two-handled cups with children? They are for people of all ages who struggle with hand to mouth co-ordination surely?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I don't think any of us are confusing anything, though.

We all know why two-handled cups are used. It's to serve a physical need. But we also know that can be quite humilating for someone who recognizes they're being given a child's cup. The reason these cups are associated with children is surely simple - that's who they're mostly used by. In my experience, no-one enjoys having to drink out of a plastic beaker, no matter what age they are.

I know there's not an easy answer, btw. I just don't think anyone is confused about it.

[PercyIsGreen]

And in the twilight of our years we all revert to pissing and shitting ourselves. For children they are called nappies for adults they are called pads. Child drinking cup/adult drinking cup what is the difference? You use products to maintain good health not how good it looks (but I do like the idea of the flowery cups that is a good idea).

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Yes, we know that.

It's not as if the first thing elderly relatives need is to be told 'now you're shitting yourself, I'll pop a nappy on and give you a sippy cup'. The whole point is that even when these things become physically necessary, it feels horrible, because believe it or not, elderly people are still people and still feel embarrassed and upset.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

And, btw, I do think it is hugely important that people feel ok in themselves. You can't separate 'good health' from how someone feels. I know for absolutely certain that my gran's health was better when she felt she was in a familiar environment and treated with respect. It is well understood that if you have a patient with dementia, they can actually lose physical function if they are too confused by new things to know what to do. So you might find that if you give someone a plastic cup, they might actually not know how to drink from it, because their memory is going.

So these things do matter in a very deep way, I think.

[PercyIsGreen]

Yes I know this as I work with them every day. And they are intelligent enough to know that when that time comes, they use the products designed and available to them to help maintain a healthy life.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Who's 'they'? A very select group of non-representative elderly people?

Your attitude is really upsetting me. I hope we're miscommunicating and you don't actually think what I'm understanding you to think.

[firesidechat]

The day someone gives me tea in a plastic cup is the day I want to die. It may be for practical reasons, but it is horrid.

[PercyIsGreen]

LRD - have you ever seen someone elderly suffer with a water infection through lack of fluid intake? On the good side it's a course of anti-biotics on the bad side it's a stay in hospital. I applaud anyone who can invent a drinking vessel suitable for adults with poor hand to mouth co-ordination to avoid this. Most of the people I care for simply cannot hold a cup to their mouth that is all I am saying and what do you think is more demeaning for them? Me holding the cup to their mouth/guiding the cup to their mouth or them doing it for themselves albeit a two-handled vessel?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Yes, I have percy.

I'm not sure why you think this means it's ok to be callous - and I do think it's callous to say what you said.

I acknowledged there isn't an easy answer. I acknowledged that sitting with an elderly person and helping them to drink is time-consuming and difficult. But that doesn't mean that people will suddenly be ok with drinking from sippy cups just because it's the best thing health-wise.

[PercyIsGreen]

I am sorry I am upsetting you as I think as we are saying the same thing but I don't think I am saying it very well. I don't want people to suffer with water infections or have to go into hospital. I want them to be able to drink using a suitable vessel adapted to their needs.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I expect I'm not saying it well either. I am getting too involved.

I can see that for people who are able enough mentally to understand, a cup with two handles is a good thing to have.

I just feel it's not true to say that 'they' (elderly people?) always see it that way, as I have seen elderly people really upset and confused and lost and I hate the idea of it.

But there isn't a good answer anywhere.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

And I shouldn't have said you were being callous because I can see you're not meaning to be.

It was just, you saying that 'they' understand this got to me a bit - because I've seen when that's not true and it is so horrible to watch someone slowly realize they're being treated as incapable, but not able to understand why.