To be ridiculously upset about dd not being able to take her place at private school

[eminemmerdale]

DD(7) is super bright - I am not being a pfb mother, she is number 3 with two older siblings but she is stupidly clever. Because of this, we, on advice, put her in for an entrance exam for our super selective local prep school. It started off last summer when we went to the first open day, then did the interview with the head, taster day, pre-test and finally the entrance test. She was awarded a place - we were told she had done 'exceptionally well' and got one of not that many places. We had, from the start, said we would need a significant bursary, and applied - we fulfill all the criteria and were pretty much led to believe that we would get a good enough one. However, although we got what would probably be thought of as a lot of money off, we just couldn't match it (unless we stopped paying utility bills and eating!) I asked if it could be negotiated and they did do their best but clearly the funds weren't there - cue lovely e mails and calls from the head and deputy head, regetting that we couldn't take the place :( Her primary is one of the best in the city and I know that a few other children from her year have been offered places, which is great. However, I now find out that one of them has been offered and accepted a bursary, but the parents are laughing their heads off because the grandparents had offered to pay full fees but the parents kept that quiet! How is it fair that the money they are taking means that my dd can't take the place? If they had been honest and said grandparents would pay then dd could possibly go - how many more are doing this? I could (in fact, have) cry. It is fucking horrible.

You have every right to be upset - your expectations were raised and have been dashed and that's miserable however legitimate the reasons may be.

But your dd will be fine, honest. Private primaries are a luxury that don't make much difference. Even secondary - in adult life you can't tell the difference between me and my friends who went to an independent secondary and all the other people we socialise and work with who didn't.

"zwischenzug Why did your parents send your younger sibling to private school and not you?"

I am the 3rd of 5 children, the younger sibling I'm referring to is the youngest. I guess if they'd sent me both my younger siblings would have expected to go, and my parents wouldn't have been able to afford that. My older siblings who had a fair bit of potential have turned out quite badly (over 30 and have never held down a job) and I suppose my parents didn't want the youngest to go the same way.

Funnily enough, I'm not resentful over this particular decision, although I do have a bit of a problem with other unequal treatment they have dished out over the years.

any parent worth their salt would choose private schooling every time if finances weren't an issue

Bollocks to that.

OP, I do feel sorry for you actually, you seem to have bought into the 'any child can come here if they're bright enough' hype that private schools put around to help them maintain their charitable status. It's simply not true - or else they have classes filled with bright children on scholarships and wouldn't make any money on fees.

Practical thoughts; Have you looked at other sources of funding e.g. the Directory of Grant Making Trusts (all sorts of eccentric and very specific sources of funds in there, may hit your case, may well not, worth a look), also support from 'old boys and girls', any other charitable foundations?

Have you talked to the school about what score your dd actually achieved? If they go up to 100% bursary for the brightest, why are you not being offered 100%? Is it that she did very well indeed but not truly exceptionally? Or is it that they judge you could pay more than you think you can? Is it worth discussing that, if only so that you understand?

Have you looked at options from 11 and can you work towards a full scholarship, or bursary combination for that stage, if you think she would really benefit?

Can you think about how you can use any money you would have put towards the fees to provide extra-curricular activities, tuition, interesting days out etc? She could achieve a lot by being stretched in these ways, adding breadth as well as some depth, without seeing it as 'school', so possibly having more fun and feeling less pressured or competitive (and if you're going to say she thrives on being driven, well, you can do that too, through music lessons, maths tuition etc).

Essentially work with what you have a be positive, bitterness will eat you and doesn't sound all that well-founded anyway. Presumably the other family's bursary would not have been transferred to your dd, at best it might have been divided between all the bursary recipients, or, it would have gone to the next child down the list. The school has criteria, that family met them. The school is not omniscient, no-one is, nothing is perfectly fair.

Also, you are very lucky that the state primary is a good one, count your blessings. If you want to act in support of your dd's education you can always go on the PTA and support the school in other ways.

If you really want to feel outraged at others playing the system to the disadvantage of your child and channel this to some effect, look into tax avoidance, consider the difference that many, many millions could make to state education and join a campaign group.

I think parental expectation has a lot to do with anybody's success.

What happened with dh, I suspect, was a combination of his own immaturity (clearly nothing to be done about that) and MIL's belief that the one thing that mattered was getting into a good school and that he could now relax.

I can see why you are upset. But the point is nobody can stop grandparents helping financially and their money won't figure into the calculations of entitlement to bursaries. Some state comprehensives are excellent.

I am being very irrational I suppose. But it is a good point that we got suckd into the charitable status idea - The bursariese also have nothing to do with how well the children did on the exam btw, it is purely based on finances. Anyway, I am extremely lucky that her primary is excellent ( several pupils are going to various prep schools next year - the wealth of some of the parents whose children go there is quite staggering!) and her teacher is hugely supportive of her and her abilities so we will just wait and see what happens at age 11. Thank you all for giving me a kick up the bum and a clearer perspective.

YABU. For not wanting to treat your children equally. Make sure your DD reads everything and anything and she will do just fine at a good state primary.

DD has joined a well known public school for 6th form having been state educated up to now. There is no big gap between her knowledge and that of her fellow pupils most of whom have been privately educated from the age of 5.

That's a little unfair. It has nothing to do with not treating my children equally - as I said eldest left school many years ago, having gone to the right school for her, our middle son would rather gouge his eyes out than go to a private school and this dd would, I am sure, have thrived in the atmosphere of the school we would like her to have gone to. all children are different and benefit from different challenges. I didn't just wake up one morning and think oh, I know, lets send dd to an independant school and make the others feel less worthy! They were equally proud of her when she passed and sad that she can't go - it doesn't lessen their achievements or individuality. The rest of your post is right - she does read, absorb and learn independantly and loves it.

OP, I hope you're not thinking that everyone going to private school is bright and hardworking and those who go to state schools are not as clever.

There will be many, many children who are lazy and entitled at an independent school. There will be many with a really bad attitude to those in state schools, too. I've met these children and they are truly vile.

If your child is incredibly bright, she will do well wherever she goes. The trick is getting her into a good secondary school where she'll be set with children who are as bright as her.

I've always believed that spending money on a private education is a waste of money; you're better off spending that money on moving to an area where there are good schools.

zwischenzug: "7% of children are privately educated, yet around 40% of Oxbridge students come from a privately educated background. Pretty clear that a private education gives you a vastly greater chance of getting to the top."

A bit more complicated than that. All private schools are selective, in that they select by money - only richer families can afford to send their kids there. And some are academically selective, so they take only the higher-achieving kids. As a general rule, wealthier kids do better educationally anyway, even in the state system, because they come from backgrounds where education is valued, their parents will usually be highly educated etc. So once you've taken that into account, the value the private school is adding isn't necessarily that great. Of course in the top public and private schools (Eton, Winchester etc) you are getting the added benefit that comes from making contacts that will give you a shortcut into the best jobs. But you're not necessarily getting a huge amount of added value educationally, particularly in the more ordinary private schools.

Well I know children who gained a*'s at schools where most people on this thread will recoil in horror at the idea of sending their children there due to poor ofsteds & low a-c passes. I also know that at my sixth form those who had come from private schools did n't do as well at A'level as those who were at the comp school all the way through.

My dn went to the same academically selective school in the 1980s-90s - on a government assisted places scheme, as the family was very poor. I guess I kind of thought a bursary scheme would be similar. Of course many children in private schools will be challenged and find it difficult and everyone tells me that dd will 'do well anywhere'. Maybe she will - I hope so, we may not be wealthy but we do value education - both of us are graduates - dh from cambridge so we are aware of the benefits of a good education, I just sort of despair at the state of the country and how difficult things will be for all our children in the future.

I do think yabu.
It's along the same lines as ds1 with his speech therapy. He waited 12 months to get to the top of the list for NHS, so my dad paid for private speech therapy in the meantime. We continued with the private when he started being seen on the NHS so you could argue that we were taking the space of another child.
Just because another family member wants to contribute though doesn't mean you should turn down the original offer of assistance. You 're still just as entitled to it.

Your daughter is very clever - she will do well wherever she goes. It's a shame but she will still achieve more than the average student - lucky her for being so bright.

Thank you lafa I hope so

I know this isn't going to sit well, but surely one of the benefits of you both being graduates (one from Cambridge) should be that you have a better earning capacity - that possibly being one of the reasons that you want your child into an academic school. So on that basis then the argument for it doesn't stack up if you can't afford to educate one of children privately even with a generous bursary.

I may not fully grasp this issue though as my own background and that of my OH is that we were brought up on rough council estates went to the local school (OH didn't go very much for the last couple of years) and left with no prospect of Uni as despite decent grants in those days, our families needed the income from our wages.

......and we could afford (just) to send our 2 private with a bursary if we chose.

so what exactly is the benefit of a decent private education? Surely it's about more than just that, it's about a strong work ethic and commitment and whatever else and those are things you do at home, and you don't only expect them to be taught in school....private or otherwise.

Not having a dig here, just generally bemused.

Fair point, but for lots of reasons, neither of us are in very well paid jobs - we didn't actually meet till we were 'older' and have only been buying our house for a few years. Absolutley we should have taken more advantage of our educations but life doesn't always work out that way!

I had a bit of a go at DH the other day about this very same thing . he basically messed about with travelling the world, taking silly jobs and doing very little until we met - he thought he was going to be an eternal bachelor

If the bursary amount is based purely on financials the amount the school are asking for you to contribute is based on them leaving you with a liveable amount of money so could you relook at the rest of your budget? Presumably as its based on your own financials whether the other child goes or not makes no difference to your entitlement so I wouldnt waste any more angst on that.

You mentioned you are both graduates, one from Cambridge. Is there anything you can do to improve your incomes? 10 years ago I accepted places for my oldest two DCs at a prep with small bursaries attached to the places and also had DC3 in full time nursery. It was a massive leap of faith as I honestly had no idea how we would pay and at first used to feel massive relief every month when we just scraped the direct debits for three lots of fees and the mortgage. It gave both DH and I the incentive to work incredibly hard. I work in IT and switched there and then from coding to management thus massively increasing my future earnings. DH started his own business and now earns more than we could ever have anticipated back then. I'm glad the school fees bills gave us the push to do that. Realise not everyone has the opportunity to do this and I'm not trying to suggest they could but with your advantages and no younger children to worry about have your thought through all the possibilities to improve your incomes? Apologies in advance if ill health or other misfortune makes this impossible.

Sorry took so long to post its kind of covered. We were 30 when we took on the commitment but would have done the same thing 10 or 15 years later too.