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Original poster

To think Oscar Pistorius deserves the benefit of the doubt?

217 replies

SilverMoo · 19/02/2013 19:10

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? I think the media circus around this is really unfair and am shocked so many people are ready to jump on the bandwagon and call him a murdering woman hater before he's even been tried. Just that really.

OP posts:
LastChanceDiner · 20/02/2013 15:58

Two issues stand out as hard for me to see as consistent with the claim that this was a tragic misunderstanding:

  1. What MrsTP said re the actions it would reasonably be expected for Oscar to take which would have led him to ascertain Reeva was/ wasn't in the room. It just seems like instinct to me that you would see if the other person in the room had heard what you had heard/ was aware of what was going on and was in a position to defend themselves/ get help as needed if something happened to you. It seems to me I might also be immediately concerned to check the welfare of your loved ones -i.e. that they are not already in a dangerous position with any suspected intruder.

2)Why Oscar and Reeva were sleeping with the balcony doors open if there was such concern about intruders and previous death threats to Oscar.

LegoWidow · 20/02/2013 15:59

PhyllisDoris - yes, exactly. Though in the UK most of the papers are still screaming headlines e.g. of "testosterone found" even though that was rebutted. When asked if he'd looked at what it was before they subsequently detailed him having had steroids and putting that forward as part of their prosecution case (and presuming leading then to someone leaking the info), the police officer said that he hadn't read the label properly. I mean, WT actual F

Jins · 20/02/2013 16:03

Pre-meditated murder doesn't mean he thought about it for weeks. It means that his intent was to kill and that intention may have been only seconds before he shot the gun.

There are huge holes in his case. I guess when it actually gets to trial it will have been perfected and he will have been trained what to say.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/02/2013 16:03

Like anyone standing trial for murder Pistorius will get the 'benefit of the doubt' if the prosecution can't prove the case beyond reasonable doubt. That's self-evident. What I think some people mean by 'benefit of the doubt' however, is 'believe his side of the story unquestioningly'. That would be ridiculous.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 20/02/2013 16:05

rhino, I have no particular feelings or opinion about him, so no, I don't 'just want to believe' he's innocent because I like him.

As for the fair hearing thing, I think there has already been a lot of knee-jerk reaction around this case and yes, I think he has possibly started from a point of being believed guilty.

I do not know if he's guilty or innocent at the moment but I believe in minimal sensationalism and innuendo and in innocent until proven guilty.

'did he really think it was someone trying to get into his house.' Well, perhaps he did.

'Why would an intruder lock themselves in a bathroom?' I don't know. Maybe in the cold light of day he doesn't know, but if you were scared out of your wits in the middle of the night you might think differently.
'Why did he say he was asleep when 2 witnesses heard screaming between 2 and 3am (not confirmed)' As you say yourself, it's not confirmed.
'would he seriously not have woken Reeva? or her not have woken herself when he got out of bed to go to the bathroom and shoot?' See my answer to the 'bathroom' point.

Don't get me wrong, if it becomes clear that he did knowingly murder his girlfriend I will condemn him as heavily as anyone else. Until then I'm keeping an open mind. I only hope the judge is too.

ophelia275 · 20/02/2013 16:06

Of course he deserves a fair trial but I still think it all sounds really really dodgy and he is guilty as hell.

PollyFrances · 20/02/2013 16:11

We do not know any if the facts in this case, only media speculation. Sadly, I do not think he will get a fair trial.

rhino1971 · 20/02/2013 16:12

although the testosterone has been dismissed by the defence it may be they are just trying to limit the damage, yes it seems the police are useless, it's the Prosecutions word against the defence until all this is tested and proven.

The distance the witness who heard the screams has gone from 600 yards back to 300 yards and back again all in a day... all very messy.

Going back to why would an intruder lock themselves in the bathroom, any intruder in SA would surly also be armed and not need to lock themselves away, would Oscar really believe an intruder would hide in a small bathroom.

Was the Balcony open? if so then the argument about being frightened of intruders is utter rubbish.

I just cant get away from the feeling he did it on purpose in a fit of anger, everyone remembers the Olympics and how ungracious he was in defeat (not that makes him guilty of murder before i get flamed)

smuffin · 20/02/2013 16:16

Apparently testosterone and needles have been found in his home. Its not looking good for Oscar.

WileyRoadRunner · 20/02/2013 16:17

Have you been reading the daily mail smuffin? Wink

Things are not looking good for the prosecution, I think he might just get bail unless they pull themselves together.

Itsjustafleshwound · 20/02/2013 16:18

Thinking the same Rhino ...

There just seems to be a whole heap of little nothings piling up ...

PollyFrances · 20/02/2013 16:18

"Apparently" (this is the problem with this discussion)

Bue · 20/02/2013 16:20

I can certainly understand people wanting to believe him. I would actually like to believe him, but I just can't at this point (I am aware we don't have most of the evidence yet).

I mean, anything in this crazy world is possible, but it makes very little sense that a) an intruder would lock themselves into a toilet and b) you wouldn't check where your "beloved" was, who you were trying to protect. Even in a state of extreme fear, it seems pretty likely that the person most likely to be in the toilet by the bedroom is a person staying in the bedroom, yes? And why would you yell at someone to call the police if you thought they were asleep? You would have to wake them first.

I think he did it in a fit of rage (he clearly has intense anger issues) and is full of regret now. But he is definitely entitled to a fair trial.

PollyFrances · 20/02/2013 16:23

I think it is difficult to understand the potential fear some people in SA live in unless you have experienced yourself.

LastChanceDiner · 20/02/2013 16:25

Was claimed by the prosecution that the balcony doors were open/unlocked (not clear which- got this info from guardian website as a point not addressed by the defense) but we will have to see whether this info is correct as the case unfolds.

FellatioNels0n · 20/02/2013 16:28

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing myself this evening, after watching him standing there in court, head hung, and cameramen getting right close to his face for pictures.

If you are in the media spotlight and you are charge with a crime you have almost no hope of getting a completely fair trial by jury. It would be impossible to find someone who would not be swayed somehow by what they think they know about you, and it seems that there is no limit on how much people are able to publicly speculate on the case when you are considered public property.

Of course, the flip-side is that as a popular figure you are more likely to get away with it because a jury wants to believe that you are innocent, in spite of evidence that might suggest otherwise.

Tricky one all round, really.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 20/02/2013 16:30

'everyone remembers the Olympics and how ungracious he was in defeat'

'he clearly has intense anger issues'

Words fail me. I'll have to just quote Polly for a bit of sanity:

'I think it is difficult to understand the potential fear some people in SA live in unless you have experienced yourself.'

BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability · 20/02/2013 16:36

I'm not a fan and have no reason to believe either way, but at the moment I think I believe his version of events. Simply because if it were lies and he'd made it all up, why not say he was awoken by a sound elsewhere in the house and took the gun from under the bed when he went to investigate. Why leave the glaring hole everyone is picking up on (that he didnt notice the empty bed when he went back for the gun), if its all made up anyway?

LastChanceDiner · 20/02/2013 16:39

Re the screaming, I think the prosecution had to concede that the witnesses to this would not be able to exclude the possibility it might have been Oscar's screams they heard. Either that or the defense are saying that this will be the screaming that witnesses heard. Can't remember from the guardian article I read.

Also, witnesses who state they heard arguing were unable to say whether or not they definitely heard the voices of Oscar and Reeva in such an exchange (issues of distance have already been raised).

LastChanceDiner · 20/02/2013 16:42

It has been reported that he went to get the fan off the balcony, closed the doors and pulled down the blinds which is reported to make the bedroom dark. Oscar may state that this is why he did not notice Reeva was not in bed, though this does not answer why he did not check/ warn her about the danger they might be in.

mary21 · 20/02/2013 16:47

AllI can see is a deeply traumatized young man and a dead young woman. Many wreaked lives, .
I don't know if he killed through fear or rage. I am beginning to think fear. What ever the outcome his life will never be the same. He will never be the golden boy again.
If he doesn't get bail I think the risk of suicide is high

lljkk · 20/02/2013 16:47

This terrible incident reinforces that we mustn't have guns in our homes!

Exactly. :(

manticlimactic · 20/02/2013 16:48

Didn't he say he shouted before shooting (not sure if it was to Reeva, who he thought was in bed, or to what he thought to be the intruder a warning?). Surely if he had shouted then Reeva would have responded from the bathroom?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/02/2013 16:49

Is everyone aware that there's no jury system in RSA? It's all decided by a judge.... who presumably is above being influenced by TV reports and so on.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza · 20/02/2013 16:51

A point being missed over here but made a big impression in SA today was the fact that he claimed to be living in feAr but slept with his balcony doors open.

That really doesn't pass the sniff test.

Also the prosecution maintain the witness lives 300m, not 600m, away.

The defence lawyer is excellent though.