To NOT want my children to get US passports?

[Daffodilly]

DH is American (by birth) but also has British citizenship. We met, live and had our children in UK. No current plans to move to US.

Children are entitled to get US passports as well as UK ones. But my understanding is that at same time they are issued with a social security number too and being US citizens has implications for future tax situation. US citizens are taxed on worldwide income, regardless of where they live.

I feel this could be a huge burden to place on our children when they may never choose to live or work in US. DH places significant value on US citizenship for them.

[marfisa]

There is also some useful info on this page:
london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/faqs/faq_children.html

[freetoanyhome]

thanks. Its a ridiculous situation. She has a US passport and a SS number. They just wont renew her passport now she is an adult

[lljkk]

FREETO: How did she get a US passport without US Embassy taking copies of all of her dad's info?

[Knowsabitabouteducation]

Freetoanyhome,

You should not need photo age progression if her last passport was issued over the age of 5. If hers expired when she was 14, it was issued when she was 9. Even then, the photos do not need to be passport photos - they can be family snaps or school photos.

She can use her British long-form birth certificate as proof of citizenship if it has her father's name and place of birth as the USA. Together with the expired passport, this should be fairly compelling to even the most fastidious consular officer. In order to get her first passport and/or Consular Report of Birth Abroad, she would needed to have had his name and place of birth in her British birth certificate.

How did she come to get her first US passport? Was this based on her Consular Report of Birth Abroad? If she had this document and it is now missing, it is possible to get a copy, as you would any birth certificate.

I am surprised you have had such a run around at the consulate. I have always found them to be extremely friendly, and eager to provide the necessary documents. Did they tell you where to go for additional help? Surely they didn't just leave you hanging?

Perhaps if your DD takes herself to the consulate, she may get a better officer.

I would be surprised if she were issued a non-immigrant visa given her claims to US citizenship. Clearly she has claimed US citizenship given that she has an expired passport and failed passport application, and they take very seriously anyone claims to citizenship and failure to get a passport. It is a big crime to falsely claim citizenship, so they would not just hand out visas instead.

[freetoanyhome]

thanks for the info. Its all a bit complicated involving her being born to ex, splitting up, getting back together, moving there, getting her a passport, splitting up and us moving back etc. I didnt register her birth when we lived in the UK (she was born here). I've spent hours on the phone to the Embassy and they have been rude and unhelpful. She has finally got an interview to renew her passport so fingers crossed.

[Knowsabitabouteducation]

Let us know how she gets on.

It would be a good idea for her to take as much documentation as possible when she goes for her interview, although her expired passport and long-form birth certificate should be enough looking at the forms.

For example, how did you come to be in the US - were you married and he sponsored you for a green card? If so, any documentation surrounding that would be a strong support that he was a US citizen sponsoring his wife on an immediate relative visa. Do you have any copies of tax returns? Do you have any evidence of having a life together which reasonably resulting in his fathering your DD? (Don't answer - just questions to think about).

[Daffodilly]

Thanks for all the replies. Lots to think about and clearly we need some expert advice.

Children are aged 6, 3 and 5 months. None of them registered as birth abroad. Never remotely occurred to me that we'd need to as both parents have British passports, we live in UK and have no plans to move to USA. Of course that could change, I just mean it isn't like we are temporarily here and happens to be where children were born. We consider UK home.

I am very happy for children to know their heritage - both sides. I just don't want to saddle them with a lifetime of additional paperwork and admin for a "benefit" they may never realise. I have to say though I see US citizenship is highly converted by many, as a British citizen I'm not convinced pros outweigh hassles if they never want to live there.

We've been back to USA every year since we had first child to visit DH's family. Always travelled on UK passports as I didn't have a clue this would be a problem. I know ignorance isn't an excuse, just hope we haven't unknowingly caused a major problem.

[Saski]

My husband is in the process of giving up his US citizenship and his attorney has told him to not use his US passport when entering the US - so I gather that even if it is required for US citizens to use their US passport when entering, it's not enforced.

My son's US passport was expired at Xmas when we travelled back and we used his UK passport - I filled out the form online and paid the 14GBP fee or something in that neighborhood.

[Daffodilly]

Thanks Saski that makes me feels bit better.

We've certainly not tried to deceive US immigration nazis we enter together as a family with DH on US passport and rest on UK. Explain we are visiting family. They always piss me off by asking questions that seem to imply we might be trying to stay on illegally in the country. As if! No thanks 2 weeks with inlaws is enough and then I'll be going home to UK thanks!

[Mimishimi]

This is interesting reading if you want to know exactly what is being done to the USA. Not just with tax laws but other legislation. This became pretty evident to our little circle of Aussie expats living near New York after 9/11. Most of us, bar one, are back in Australia now. It's exactly what happened to Germany too...

www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/02/14/is-it-time-to-pack-your-bags-america/

Okay, so the language used is fairly sensationalist and emotive, but nothing they are saying about the practical effects, and intended use, of these laws is actually inaccurate. We always got grilled when entering the US too, and that was before 9/11. They then wonder why birthrates throughout the Western world have dropped off a cliff too ...

[SelfconfessedSpoonyFucker]

But Dafo, if DH is able to pass on citizenship then they are US citizens and may already be 'burdened' as it were.

Plus you may see the UK as home, but hopefully they are going to have long long lives and their time at home as children will be just a small part of that. What if they are like me and really wanted to live in the U.S. as a U.S. citizen? I have Brit citizenship and was born and brought up there but still very much value my U.S. citizenship, just as much as my Brit one.

Mimi, I read the link and it is really sensationalist. Plus as a dual national you have more choices, not less.

[Saski]

It's true that citizenship is quite separate from passports, but if you want your children to be able to rescind their citizenship more easily - not having a passport and/or not entering the US under a US passport makes your case stronger.

The tax situation for US citizens living abroad is growing bleaker by the moment. Because of the overreach of the IRS, certain banks will not even open non-US accounts for US citizens - they have separate shell banks for US citizens that the IRS can easily access without the bank divulging the details of it's non-US customers.

Now, there's talk of the IRS having access to even non-US citizens, living abroad, if they are married to US citizens. My husband and I have had a few discussions about getting a divorce in the course of his renouncing his citizenship to make a complete break from his income and assets to the US.

[BiddyPop]

I am a dual national (US and Irish). I got my passport just after I got married. I only got a social security number a couple of years ago (gap of a few years) as we were thinking of moving there so I needed to consider filing back taxes paperwork to be able to sponsor DH for a visa. They were completely seperate processes.

I have never actually filed for taxes yet, as it became irrelevant again - and there has never been any paperwork sent to me since (and I have renewed my passport and we have travelled there on hols twice).

[HitWithTheYankStick]

I think people who are worried about their children already being 'burdened' with US citizenship if they have never gone to the embassy and got that Consular Report thingy, got passports, got SS numbers, are probably overthinking things.

I mean not even they can't FORCE you to take up a citizenship against your will.

[Saski]

If the US government can find a US citizen's bank account opened with a non-US passport, they can find their children.

The non-earning children of taxpayers coming under scrutiny since the US has gone bonkers are not old enough for us to know how the IRS will treat them.

It all could turn out to be paranoia. Then again, it might not.

[dreamingbohemian]

Oh my god, they can find your children! And...and... make them fill out paperwork! And if they're very rich, they might have to pay a little money under completely legal and transparent regulations!

I mean, come on now. I get it, taxes suck, nobody wants to pay taxes. But that's life. If you want to be all Gerard Depardieu about it, go ahead, but realistically your children will be minimally affected.

[Saski]

Actually, the US government is becoming very unreasonable. There's no other country that taxes world-wide income. Why should US citizens living outside of the US pay US taxes, when they already pay taxes in their country of residence?

[dreamingbohemian]

Why should Brits pay income tax when people in Dubai pay no income tax at all?

yes it sucks but, again, that's life

It's not the US government's fault that you have chosen not to make use of the benefits of US citizenship.

Btw no one has mentioned yet one of the biggest benefits -- you can vote in US elections. Given some of the utter lunatics who run for office in the US, that's no small thing.

[Saski]

I'm not sure I agree with your logic. My logic is that you should pay taxes in your country of residence.

[dreamingbohemian]

Yes, but if you were an Emirati, your logic would be that individuals shouldn't have to pay income taxes at all. My point is just that all tax laws and all attitudes toward taxes are relative, there is no one 'right' way to do it.

[juneau]

AFAIK it is illegal for a US citizen (and having a US parent is enough to confer US citizenship), to enter the US on a foreign passport. I'm assuming that your US DH has family there and will therefore wish to visit them with the DC at some point? If so, you should check very rigorously before you book your travel that you will not be breaking the law/risk being turned back at the border for having the wrong travel documents.

I know this because my DH is American and we faced a similar, though not identical, situation.

[lljkk]

having a US parent is enough to confer US citizenship

not always, the rules are complicated.
I haven't heard of anyone actually being turned back for travelling on their non-US passport, but I have heard of a great many wink-wink-nudge-nudge heavy hints dropped liked bombs about "That child should have a US passport" from the Border Agency people. They are still human beings and appreciate children can't fix the situation there and then, so they can't say something overt. At least one friend had no idea what they were on about, though until I explained.

Some of this talk about filing taxes is scare-mongering. Uk is moving hard towards universal self-assessment too, anyway.

My dad always files his own taxes, he got audited by the IRS and WON. :).

[notMrsRobinson]

Oh no, I can feel my life imploding having (skim) read this thread... I am from the USA and haven't filed a return since we moved here 18 years ago. Last year due to being a director of OH's company I earned over the threshold, first time ever. Can anyone help me and tell me who I need to 'fess up to? The Embassy scares the life out of me. BTW I gained British citizenship a few years ago but haven't got a UK passport yet. I am cursing my laziness but hoping I can use 'I was just a housewife' and 'no one told me I had to' to excuse all those years of non communication.

BTW I had no idea re: the citizenship, I have one child born in the US and one in UK, I'd assumed that the UK born one's entitlement to US had expired as she's 17 and we are not really bothered about it, no desire to live/work there... and DS aged 19 needs to know that he should be filing! he won't thank me for that I suppose. I need to sort this out but don't want to spend £££ doing it... is the UK Citizen's Advice a good place to start or will they just send me to the embassy? [[http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/non-resident_questionnaire.pdf] this] was the form I found via the embassy website and I cannot make heads or tails of it... professional advice will be needed I suppose. Just furious that it will cost me money for no point whatsoever.

Can we all claim political asylum if they demand unreasonable amounts of money?

Sorry OP haven't carefully read the whole thread (as I've been to busy having a minor heart attack imagining what sort of prison they'll put me in) what have you decided to do?

[notMrsRobinson]

aaarg. should have been this

[Knowsabitabouteducation]

Unless you want to move to the US within 3 years, don't worry about back taxes. Just start to get your affairs in order.

You basically need to keep calendar year records of your income, and then do a 1040 before June 15th next year. It's pretty easy if your finances are simple.

As for your 17 year old, you have a short time to get her Consular Report of Birth Abroad, which will establish her US citizenship.

If she decides at a later date that she wants to study or settle in the US, she will have her paperwork cut out (and expenses), whereas it is very easy to do it now while she is still under 18.