to wonder how we are going to manage when I start working fulltime?

[SuiGeneris]

Before I get flamed, I realise we are relatively lucky and that there are many people here on MN and IRL that manage much more difficult lives. However, I would still welcome advice for those of you who have done it all before.

I have just got back from maternity leave and am about to be made redundant from my lovely part-time job. I am in a senior role within my (male-dominated) industry and although there are new jobs out there, none of them is part-time. DH works in the same industry and is about to start a new full-time job. We have a toddler and a baby. The toddler goes to nursery part-time and the baby is looked after by a full-time nanny.

I have been working part-time since DC1 was a baby, but the job has always fitted around our family, so we have become quite reliant on me picking up all the family-related jobs: I take the children to their hospital appointments (usually at 2/3pm during the week), I talk to their teachers, I do the shopping, run the household, cook, organise our and our children's social lives, extracurricular activities etc. I have not quantified this in hours per week, but ti is quite a lot. It is rare that I get time to read the paper, let alone watch TV or do something for myself. I do read MN while breastfeeding DC2.

Now I am concerned that once I start a new job, I will basically need to leave the house at 8.15 and not return until 6.30 (possibly 6 if I am very lucky). DC2 still wakes and feeds several times per night and DC1 has just given up his nap, so on most evenings he goes to bed at 7. DH at the moment leaves the house around 8.30 (usually walking DC1 to nursery once or twice a week) and returns around 6.30 (which is early for his job). DH goes to the gym during lunchtime at the moment, I am supposed to have an exercise class one evening a week but dread it and hate that it sucks two precious hours out of my week.

I am worried that the children will almost never see us and that I will have to take time off from sleeping to do household chores (online shop, batch cooking, etc) and that it will always end up being me who has to take time off for hospital appointments, teachers, etc. Consequently, I think children, relationship and work quality are going to suffer.

However, I know there are plenty of women in senior jobs who have working husbands and children and manage it fine, so please do come and tell me I should not worry and just do what you do (with details of how to do it, please).

[ChestyLeRoux]

I have foind childcare is still so much cheaper
once they are at school.

[aldiwhore]

Childcare for me in a school holiday is £250 per week, I would earn JUST over that if I worked full time, I can't always take annual leave during school holidays. It's tough.

If the money's right OP could your now full time nanny cover childcare of your eldest for a pay increase? That might cost significantly less than separate childcare for your toddler... I may be confused.

[SuiGeneris]

Thank you everyone, lots of helpful suggestions and (mostly) empathy: I feel better already.

Someone said unnecessary expenses, others asked why a full-time nanny for a part-time job: because to be able to work part-time in my sort of role you still need to be available at very short notice pretty much 24/7. You cannot say "sorry, I cannot deal with your issue because I do not work today". So I need the nanny all the time, even though some days she may spend longer cooking for the kids or doing nursery duties rather than actual childcare. As for the cleaner being unnecessary expense, I beg to differ: both DH and I hate housework and are not v good at it, plus have very different ideas of how jobs should be done, so the cleaner features v high in our priorities.

In our case my working is not about financial need at the moment (though obv it helps), it is about staying current and maintaining employability for the future. Also, I hate the feeling of inequality that comes from not working and I enjoy what I do. In fact, I enjoy work more than my husband enjoys his, but neither of us is cut to be a housespouse. Otherwise perhaps his becoming a houseDH would have been ideal.

Alternatives to full-time employment exist but are very rare: a recruiter I spoke to recently said he had had at most 5-6 last year. Consultancy looks good in theory but tends to require full-time hours too.

[SuiGeneris]

Aldiwhore: yes, our nanny could look after both children at the same time (though it would be hard as they are still little) but DC1 really benefits from the education he receives at the nursery. He only goes part-time in any event.

[shesariver]

You have a baby and a toddler and you're worried about your children's social lives?! That made me

[13Iggis]

I am wondering now what "nursery duties" are?!
Seriously though all you have to worry about (and it's a big one) is missing time with the kids, your household set-up is the most convenient one I've ever heard off. You will have an easier time of full-time work than anyone I know.
Try to enjoy your new job, and the time you do have with the children. The list of things you say you have to do (talk to teachers, arrange social lives) don't seem to fit with having a baby and a toddler Life will be harder is you over-fill their days.

[RubyrooUK]

My DH and I are both in very senior roles. Neither of us work in a family-focused environment; it is entirely normal for people to work very long hours. And it's very competitive for both of us (although sadly not brilliantly paid).

We have both worked full time for around 2 years with DS1 and I am about to have DS2. In the main, it's a pretty good life. (I bf DS1 for 9 months after returning to work too as he wouldn't take a bottle.)

We don't have a nanny - we use a regular nursery from 8-6. For big issues like DH going abroad when I have lots of work commitments, we ask our mothers to help out (neither lives near so this isn't a regular thing but an emergency backup solution).

What we have done:

• we share everything, including time off with sick child, appointments and so on. When there are two of you working FT, you both have to adjust your schedule.

• either we shop at the weekend if we're in the mood or we buy it online and get it delivered.

• we have a cleaner and don't worry too much about mess etc.

• we make sure the time we have with DS is lovely family time. Neither of us is shouty or grumpy with him as we are genuinely thrilled to see him at the end of the day and weekend. And after the fast pace of work, being with a toddler makes you laugh and appreciate life.

• we are quite strict about one of us being home for dinner with DS and we will always try to both be there. So we don't miss out on bathtime or cuddles. Both DH and I get some nice time just with DS, as well as time with all of us.

• I am very strict now with leaving work when I need to. If I have too much to do, genuinely, I will work after DS is in bed. But I think that being disciplined with leaving work has made me much more focused and a better manager. My work has also adapted well to this and it has been accepted as the norm - people always talk about how hard I work, so I don't think being disciplined is seen as slacking off.

I think either you can see all the negatives of working full time and having kids. Or you can see the positives. My DS has so many lovely times with his dad because we share his care so much; I never had anything like that with my dad. And DS adores me and loves being with me so it's lovely to be around him.

Yes, there are stressful times and maybe it won't always work for us (or you) but it is certainly doable.

[SuiGeneris]

Rubyroo: hear, hear. We will have to do as you are doing. Will show DH this thread and discuss.

13iggis: in our house nursery duties include washing and ironing for the kids (a lot of work atm due to potty training not going brilliantly), tidying up their room (atm toddler's bed needs to be changed 2+ times a week due to leaky nappies), cooking for them, sometimes shopping. We are fortunate to have a flexible nanny who will pop out to get some courgettes for the baby and at the same time buy the bread and pick up the dry cleaning. It will be harder for her too once I am no longer at home to share some if these tasks...

[aldiwhore]

SuiGeneris I meant at times outside your toddler's nursery setting... sorry wasn't clear!

I'm not saying it won't be tough, but I would certainly be working full time right now if I could afford someone to do the jobs I'm rubbish at, childcare was sorted AND I had the income to feel the benefit.

I suppose you won't know until you try. Fretting won't get you anywhere. If you're senior management, you will probably be able to make it work for everyone, and if you can't it's not meant to be right now.

I agree that if you view this as a household problem rather than YOURS alone, and get DH on board to tackle some of the logistics then your own personal angst will be less. All the best.

[jkklpu]

Children's clothes don't need to be ironed

[pointythings]

I second everything rubyroo has said, and DH and I are not in senior or well-paid roles. No nannies, no cleaners, we have coped - so will you. We've always both worked full time.

I think you're very sensible to maintain your employability, and since you are so sensible you should have confidence in your ability to make this work for you. My hours aren't that different from yours if you include commuting, but I've always managed to make time for the DCs - sometimes there was bad language and involved once we'd got the solution to a particular problem ironed out, but we did it. You will too.

[BlackholesAndRevelations]

Sounds like it will be easily manageable. Plenty of people do it without full time nanny/cleaner.

[Mydelilah]

Reading rubyroos post was like reading about my own arrangements! I don't have much to add but wanted to post to echo the others - it is totally possible and you will cope! I find it very rewarding to be both a mum and successful in my career. And it gets easier - now that DD has started school and DS is not far off, it is all much more manageable. Here are the main things I couldn't manage without:

A nanny who is flexible and doesn't mind staying a bit later occasionally (for extra pay of course)

Nanny is responsible for all washing/ironing/meal prep and tidying of kids rooms. I would really struggle if this wasn't covered.

Cleaner does a big clean once a week and mine and DH's ironing. This means we don't have a load of housework to do on the weekend and more time with the DCs

Sharing 50/50 with DH. We take it in turns to be home for DCs tea/play/bedtime. We are really strict that one of us should be here.

I am in a senior position in a competitive industry, but have negotiated working from home one day a week. I do put in a full days work, but try and concentrate all the doctors/dentists appts on this day. Also I can drop/pick up DD from school and spend lunch hour with DS on this day.

I spend about 2 dedicated hours a day with my DCs (breakfast and evening) and the whole weekend. It's real quality time and I don't feel like I'm not spending time with them at all.

It really can work if you get childcare and housework sorted, and you seem to have the financials to do this. Don't worry ;-)

[buildingmycorestrength]

You all sound like you have really figured out ways to make it work. Inspiring.

[havingastress]

Do you have to work? Does your partner have to work? Can one of you not just work and manage in the meantime?

It's hard. We can't afford childcare as it would cost more than my partner earns. So in September, I'm going to work and he's going to be daddy daycare.

I'd much rather it was me doing that role, but ££ just won't allow it.

However, I'm only on £22k so hardly raking it in. If you're senior, surely you could run the household on one income? Sorry. I'm a little of the opinion 'why have kids if you don't want to see them' camp. Particularly when people can afford nannies! just my opinion. :) not flaming you as such!

[kilmuir]

If you can't manage with a cleaner and a nanny then something is going wrong

[SuiGeneris]

Very inspiring and reassuring. Thank you guys. Now I need to bag a job!

[pingu2209]

When your children are very small it is very hard. There is little time for 'you' and even less for 'us' when it comes to you and your husband. It gets easier as they get older.

The other issue is that you have got into the rut that you do everything and your husband does very little. That will have to change. Your husband will have to do a lot more, and you will need to let go and let him do things his way, not your way.

It is very difficult.

[Iggly]

I work 4 days rarely 5. And it's hard (I'm an accountant). However I'm very strict about my day off. It's a Wednesday so easier than a Friday.

We have a nanny and ds goes to preschool (3, so free hours) and nanny looks after dd as well. He only really benefitted from 3 - he didn't like nursery at 2 so I stopped.

I leave at 8 and get home at 6.

What stops you from being strict about boundaries if you have a day off? I'm just wondering what the barriers are to going part time? When your kids are older and grown up, what will you regret the most? Spending time with them or not working enough? That's provocative but deliberately so as we are so tied up in our jobs sometimes that we don't see the big picture. One female member of our organisation's board has said she regrets not being at home more when the kids were growing up.

I suspect I'm projecting though as I don't like doing 4 days and couldn't face doing full time as I hate seeing the kids grow up without me around except at weekends.

[BlueyDragon]

You've had lots of good advice on here already but I thought I'd throw in my tuppence. Both DH and I work full time in relatively senior high pressure jobs. DH sometimes has to stay late on site in crisis situations; I can work at home if needs be. We also have a nanny and a cleaner and for both financial and personal reasons know that we both want to keep working. The things that help are:

Nanny does all child related jobs and is willing to be flexible so will pick up bread etc for us if she is shopping for DCs. In return we don't take advantage and, for example, if I've got a small amount of grown up washing I pad it out with the kids' stuff. She would also take them to routine doctor/dentist appointments and where we can any activities take place in the week so she takes them, freeing up the weekend.

Child related stuff that we get involved with is anything that might require a decision from us or where parent participation is required: consultant/hospital appointments that aren't routine, parents' evenings, viewing schools, nativity plays etc. Very often we can't both go and that's just the way it has to be (we make sure we discuss beforehand); we also try and involve our nanny because she is pivotal in their lives and should at least get the chance to see the end result if she wants to.

DH and I both have flexible working arrangements with our employers. It's complicated but works for us and our employers. In any given fortnight I work 8 till 4 (tends to be nearer 5 but that's ok) the first two days, 10 till 6 the next two (but can stay as late as needs be), and 8-4 the fifth day. The following week the pattern reverses. DH does the opposite. That way one of us is here for breakfast and the other is here for bath and bed. I have a long commute so this is the only way they see one or other of us at each end of the day; it also allows each of us to work late 5 days in 10 - we both work for companies with US links and Asia for me, so the late/early availability is key. We flex the arrangement if we need to and keep our office diaries up to date so our employers know what's happening. And, touch wood, it's not gone wrong in 6 years!

Domestic stuff: I expect DH to share this. No reason why he should be sat on the sofa whilst I break my back to run the place. He doesn't do the social stuff because he is quite anti-social and can't see the point in, say, Christmas cards, but I do so I do that. But meal planning, cooking, tidying up, shopping, laundry and admin we have a shared interest in so we can both do those. TBH, we're still working on this; I'm on sick leave ATM but we've agreed to review when I go back.


Generally I try not to compare what we do with what others do because that way madness lies. It works for us and if it stops working we review it. But I won't pretend it's not hard!

You will manage, honestly.

[SPBInDisguise]

Does the nanny do the nursery drop offs? Can she not speak to the teachers?
How many hospital appointments do your children have?
As for cuddles/jigsaws/chatting etc, I can't deny that those things suffer. You have to cram more into the time where you do see the DC, and I like to have at least one "lazy day" at the weekend, where we're all just available to each other - kids do homework/play/watch some TV while we cook and clean, but we can stop what we're doing to help or look at a jigsaw or sit on the sofa with them for 15 mins.

[Mosman]

It's tough I did it for 6 months and dropped balls all over the place.

I have ended up resigning because quite honestly it just wasn't worth it, unless you have to in order to keep the roof over your head and food on the table I would wait until the youngest is at school, if I had my time again.

[bigkidsdidit]

If you have a full time nanny, nursery care and a cleaner now you only work part time, surely you must have so much spare capacity in your life now

Tht will just fill up. With your levels of support it will be fine.

[FrenchJunebug]

am a single mum of a 2 year old and work 38 hours a week. I leave the house at 8 and come back at 6 and yes I find time to cook, do the shopping and even wash my hair sometimes!

You'll cope.