To wonder how people are going to actually buy houses?

[slatternlymother]

There's going to be a whole generation that can't, isn't there?

What about those people who rented due to circumstances/not knowing if they wanted to live there long term/work commitments etc, and then hit the wrong end of the financial crisis?

We rent, and have (luckily) really well paid jobs for our age. We are 25, and between running a car, putting DS through nursery, and just living, I doubt we'll have enough of a deposit to buy anything reasonable before we're 30. 28/29 at an absolute push. And that will be pressuring us to make a choice on where we're going to be living, but we won't be able to leave it much later because otherwise we'll be tied up in a mortgage forever.

But we are so, so lucky. Actually, it was blind luck that got us here.

And if we're struggling, how the hell is everyone else coping? Tbh, I'd happily rent all my life, but I worry about retirement age and no longer being able to pull in a decent wage.

AIBU to think that long term, more and more elderly people will have been in rented accommodation their whole lives, so when they do retire; they're going to have to fall back on the state, aren't they? To put them up in council accommodation?

Isn't this just a massive time bomb for the future?

Sorry for rambling thoughts, I just have been thinking about this quite a lot recently

[Essexmamma]

Haven't read the whole thread but I'm going to go against the tide here and suggest that compromising on the area you buy is sometimes an answer. Born and bred and rented in central London for years but could never have afforded to buy ( both earning under £30k) so looked to move out of town. We now live 10 mins from zone 6 and paid £130k for a 3 bed. Ex council, on a fairly run down estate but we took the decision that the the space, the inside (and a garden!) were more important than a postcode and in a few years, we'll be able to upgrade. My point is that we would never have been able to afford our ideal but did what many seem to more and more and compromise.

[expatinscotland]

'What puts people off renting in the UK and Ireland is the fact that you can legitimately be treated like shit and it makes your situation very insecure. The government definitely needs to introduce tighter legislation to give tenants far more rights and to stop landlords screwing them over. '

This. The real problem is the private renting system in the UK. A scam of a system that will never be changed because the 'property developer'/BTL landlord's investment vehicle must be protected at all costs.

Because of the complete crap that private renting is, many people over-stretched themselves to obtain a mortgaged-property. Now, this house of cards is precarious because interest rates are being kept low to keep these people housed.

Therein lies the problem, the essential commodity that is shelter is seen by many in the UK solely as an investment vehicle that can only increase in value.

[amillionyears]

I am not sure that people still think houses "can only increase in value".
The longer this recession goes on, the more that this era will stay etched in peoples' minds.

[expatinscotland]

Many people do, amillion. You see plenty of threads on here, from people who need to sell, but can't accept that they have lost money on the house so they stay put.

[treesntrees]

I do think the rules for rentals do need looking at and changing. Not just for the protection of the tennants but also for the Landlords. Idon't see anything wrong in renting for life, up to and including the fifties it was normal for people to rent. Even people in good steady jobs rented. My mother rented from the same Landlord for fifty two years and my father and most of his age group did small repairs and maintenance in their rented houses too.

[MrsBW]

I can only say how I did it... not how others will.

We bought 2 years ago, so not the height of the market, but still twice the cost of what we'd have paid before the last boom.

I lived in a house share for 4 years that I hated and saved as much as I could.

I didn't go on a foreign holiday for 12 years

I moved to an area where house prices weren't crazy. I am 3 hours from my family.

I waited, despite wanting to get a 100% mortgage as I was convinced that house prices had some way to fall. Luckily it proved to be the case, although that could have gone the other way.

The thing that sealed it was I met my (now) husband who had also been saving, so we could pool money.

Crucially (and this is where a lot of my friends have it wrong), we didn't feel like we had to have the 4 bed detached immediately. We live in a modest 2 bed mid terrace in an OK (but not posh by any means) area.

We waited to get married/start a family as we wanted to own our own home first so the money went into the house.

It can be done - but it's not easy and a lot of my friends have been helped out by the bank of Mum and Dad, or bought 5 years ago in a panic and on an interest only mortgage (which I was never prepared to do).

[ComposHat]

up to and including the fifties it was normal for people to rent. Even people in good steady jobs rented. My mother rented from the same Landlord for fifty two years and my father and most of his age group did small repairs and maintenance in their rented houses too

Yes and they were protected from the landlord racking up the rent when he felt like it and had security of tennure. All of which was swept away in 1988.

As things stand there is no insentive for us to undertake repairs/maintainence. If we were going to be in the same flat for 3 to 5 years and the landlord allowed we'd probably install insulation and re-decorate, but as it is, we could be flung out a month from now, so it is not worth doing. Perverely the only inseintive to improve the flat will be if we leave and the landlord needs to re let it.

[EvenIfYouSeeAPoppy]

What Cailin and Expat said.
I've been living away from the UK for years now and can only shake my head at the bonkersness of the UK situation. It's not just a case of wanting to own, it seems often to be a case of own or you're fucked.

We can terminate our rental agreement without cause with 3 months' notice. Our landlord cannot terminate without just cause, and the bar is set very high. You can only really be evicted for not paying your rent, being an absolute nuisance over a prolonged period, or if your landlord or a member of their close family wants to move in (and in that case you get 6 months' notice and removal costs paid for etc.).

We can do what we want in terms of decoration, fittings etc. as long as we restore it to more or less the original state when we leave or a subsequent tenant is happy to take it as it is (usually the case).

Renting is entirely normal and not looked down upon. If you buy, you expect to stay put for life - one reason why we haven't bought. No such thing as the property ladder here.

Landlords are limited as to what rent rises they can impose. There is an absolute limit and on top of that a relative one based on the 'usual' rent for the area.

I see no earthly reason to tie myself to a property in these conditions.

[amillionyears]

Can I ask 2 or 3 questiosn MrsW?

The area you live in. Is it a bit higher crimewise?
Are you still near work, or is the commute longer, or more difficult.
Are you a bit freer with spending money now, or are you both sort of locked in to being frugal?

[amillionyears]

Even, in the country that you are in, are landlords happy with the situation?

[EvenIfYouSeeAPoppy]

Yes. Well, I expect there are some who would like to have more freedoms, but plenty of people rent property out and are happy with the situation - it's just accepted. There are also quite a few private and semi-private companies who own large numbers of houses and flats and let them out. Most of our landlords thus far (we have moved around the country quite a lot for work) have been private individuals or very small companies.

[slatternlymother]

even do you mind if I ask you where you're living at the moment?

[MrsBW]

amillionyears was that for me?

If so, not at all.

The area I live in isn't the prettiest, but is (touch wood) OK crime wise. I was here for a long time by myself as he worked away from home for long periods, so it was important that I felt safe on my own.

I am near work - just 11 miles away. I used to live in London and knew I wouldn't be able to buy a house there which was one (of many) factor(s) in moving and working somewhere where I could. I'm lucky in that I've found an area I love and do a job I love - the only draw back is we're 150 miles from my family and 200 from his.

We are a little freer with cash but that's because we've both had pay rises since moving here. Ironically, we are still saving quite hard, and will use the savings to buy our next home - which will be the bigger family home. But we aren't putting every spare penny away which we did do to buy this place.

[FairPhyllis]

I'd like to see:

A hike in capital gains tax to stop short-term btl landlord speculation
Better tenants' rights, including long-term leases
Rent controls like in NYC
More jobs outside the SE - people have got to stop thinking they can only live in London and its commuter belt. Not going to happen until we have better growth though.
A rise in interest rates - ha! not that that is likely to happen.

[expatinscotland]

'There are also quite a few private and semi-private companies who own large numbers of houses and flats and let them out. Most of our landlords thus far (we have moved around the country quite a lot for work) have been private individuals or very small companies. '

This is true in other countries where I've lived. In the US, many states discourage individuals from buying property to let with heavy taxes, and much rental housing, particularly flats, are owned by companies, some of them very large, and often run by professional property management firms.

The whole system of letting agents here, too, is a huge scam.

[amillionyears]

MrsBW, sorry , got your name wrong. That is the 2nd time tonight I have done that wrong.
Thanks for that. Work flexibility, I am realiseg is fairly important. Some jobs can be done anywhere, within reason. but some jobs are very tied to say the centre of certain cities.

[williaminajetfighter]

I think the situation is bad and getting worse. It's serious but not as visible as it should be. We need:

1. the market to adjust (but govt does everything it can for it not to - so as not to piss off its 2 most important constituencies and land owners: the banks and older property owners)

1. Rent controls

1. BTL seriously taxed to shit or a cap on the number of properties that an individual can buy. Yes people are still buying properties these days but its the same people!!

Can I just say that I'm 43and rented again for the first time after 15 years when I moved house this summer. What a nightmare. Expensive. Crap, shittiest dumpiest furniture possible. Treated like a child. Rental agents complete assholes doing inspections, scouting house for dirt after I left so they could charge me for cleaning. When I tried to break my 1 year contract early the agents tried to keep my 2 months deposit and charge me more to cover their ' marketing and admin fees'. When I went to their governing real estate bodies to complain about such racqueteering and excessive hidden costs. they couldn't care less. Unbelievable that such an industry can exist run by dumb 25 year old boys with no moral code.

People buy because the alternative is worse!!

[KingPhilsWench]

I think it depends on the area, we have bought our house and are in our early 20s, but our 3 bed, 2 reception rooms and rather big garden cost 60k. Then around another 5k to strip it bare and turn it into our home. If we lived down south wed still be living with parents! The entire value of our house is what some need for just a deposit on a flat it's crazy

[LessMissAbs]

I think it will make the UK even less socially mobile, as those who have parents with valuable homes and willing to gift/lend deposits, buy outright or even just guarantee mortgages, will be able to buy, while those in slightly better paid jobs even will become the have nots and keep renting.

I can't see much point in young, gifted people staying in the UK tbh.

[expatinscotland]

'I can't see much point in young, gifted people staying in the UK tbh.'

I don't, either.

[AntoinetteCosway]

We bought last year. It's a (small) three bed terrace, ex council, and was just under £130k. We're up north. We earned £65k between us at that time and had a decent deposit of about 15%.

What baffles me is that I think we earn fairly well-we're professionals, DH works full time, I did too but am now part time with DD, we live a nice, frugal-ish but still some treats lifestyle, BUT the bank only just lent us the money, and therefore had we lived pretty much anywhere else in the country we wouldn't have been able to afford to buy the tiny little terrace that we've got.

Now, I think it's good that the banks have reduced the amount they're willing to lend. But until the house prices fall to match, what are people meant to do?

[AntoinetteCosway]

I should add, out of our friends who own houses-

3 married older men who already owned the properties
2 had the deposit paid by their parents

We're the only ones who did it 'alone' as it were, and even then we didn't really as MIL's pension made up a chunk of our deposit when she died. I am forever grateful to her but I would rather have her still alive obviously.

[slatternlymother]

expat DH and I are both qualified engineers, and are seriously considering taking jobs in Germany. Long term, I don't see any other way out.

I love this country so much, but I want to be treated like a person who's money and earnings are worth something. I think we'd be able to live a lot better over there than here.

[expatinscotland]

You certainly won't be treated like a scumbag for renting over there, slatternly. In your position, with your qualifications, I'd be out of here like a shot.