to think if you want NHS care you should learn English or have an interpreter?

[theebayqueen]

My local town is now populated by 47% Polish - no problems as according to the figures 21% work so presumably speak English. I have to attend my local centre to see my Consultant and for scans. However, everytime I have been the centre is full of Polish woman who do not speak a word of English and expect the NHS to provide an interpreter. Thursday clinics are the worst as this is when the men have to attend the Job Centre to get "paid" so the ladies are left to fend for themselves. The men seem to be able to speak more English than the woman.

At first they were turned away as the MW's were unable to do their jobs properly but these ladies have filed a law suit against the clinic stating it is their human right to have NHS care as they are on the benefit system and that the NHS should provide full time interpreters for them.

If they win, does this not open up another can of worms that every person that can't speak English and on the benefit system is entitled to on demand interpreters?! This would then be another huge cost to the NHS.

I am in no way racist and if the UK wants to encourage people over here for benefits then so be it but when does the free stuff stop?! Should people not learn to speak English if they want to claim on the benefit system?

[GailTheGoldfish]

Protege your mother has a legal right to a BSL interpreter and should contact her PCT to complain if NHS services are refusing to provide one. Unfortunately staff often do not know how to book BSL interpreters but they have a responsibility to their deaf patients to do so and will usually make more of an effort to find out how to do it if you tell them they have to and you will contact the PCT if they don't.

[ginmakesitallok]

We provide BSL interpreters for deaf patients - and they are a hell of a lot harder to find/more expensive than foreign language interpreters!

It's not always practical to release staff from other duties to interpret for patients not in their area.

We're also trialling video interpretation for BSL.

[thanksamillion]

In defence of the nonexistent Polish women in the OP, I live abroad and have spent 5 years trying to learn the language and it's hard, and frustrating and there have been times (particularly in medical situations) where I've ended up in tears. I'm not especially prone to crying but I've felt so frustrated and powerless (no bi-lingual hospitals here!). So whether or not this story is true, I have to say have a little empathy for foreigners trying to negotiate living in a strange and complicated country with a difficult language to learn.

[ihatethecold]

The cost varies according to the language requested and the travelling time/ distance to the booking

Rare languages like Thai, Vietnamese, Tamil and are very expensive as there are Not many qualified and most of these interpreters live in London.

For the more common languages like the Eastern European the cost to the service provider is about £50 for the first hour.

The most shocking cost is for BSL

You would be horrified to see how much they charge because they are in such high demand.

[GailTheGoldfish]

ihatethecold bear in mind you are probably paying a hefty agency mark up on top of the interpreter's fee!

[specialsubject]

If it IS an EU directive to offer interpreter services, as usual the UK is doing what much of the rest of the EU doesn't worry about.

I've spent some time in the Canaries, where there is a big English expat community for obvious reasons. If you need a doctor and haven't learnt Spanish, you take an interpreter that YOU pay for; there are plenty of people offering this service.

My immigrant forebears learnt English when they came to the UK. I don't see why more recent immigrants should not do the same.

somebody who needs an interpreter due to deafness or lack of speech is a different case.

I also await the link to the legal case.

[mrsjay]

criminals are entitled to an enterpretur (sp) these are pregnant women who so happen to speak polish wouldn't be difficult to get 1 for all really isn't a huge deal is it

[ihatethecold]

The mark up isn't much. I work for the agency.
There is so much competition that we cannot charge silly prices.
We often lose money on the rare languages and BSL.

[LabelsGalore]

But each time, I have moved to a new country, I have expected that cuntry to do everything possible so I am OK, just for me because I am not from that country.
I have always expected to take measure so that I could be acred adequately within the existing system, set up for the 'local' people (And certainly NOT for myself).
I also have always expected to learn the language after a while.
I lived for 5 years IN France and did learn French.
I lived 1.5 years in Poland and still learnt some Polish.
All that even though I have done my job all in english and did not really need to learn the local language to work.

As far as I am concerned, the rule has always been:

• If I stayed for a short ish time in that country, I would try to learn a minimum and then have an interpretor with me for any issue such as administrative issue, doctors etc...
  

If I stayed for a longer time, I would learn the language.

BTW, when I was in Poland, I found that people there are very very well educated. I also was amazed to see operator on assembly online etc... trying to learn english so they could communicate better with top management (who was coming down from time to time). So the 'Oh but they probably can't learn' argument doesn't sit down well with me.

[LabelsGalore]

Sorry meant I would NOT expect that country to do everything just for me.

[ginmakesitallok]

"Criminals are entitled to an interpreter" Mrsjay - don't you think they should be????

[ginmakesitallok]

Of course people can learn to speak English - but that takes time, so what do you do in the meantime?

You're an emergency doctor. If someone turns up to A&E who doesn't speak english do you
a) treat them without communicating with them?
b) somehow (?via an interpreter??) try to figure out how long they've been in the country, how much they have tried to learn English and then decide whether they are entitled to an interpreter or whether you are going to chuck them out or
c) call for an interpreter???

[justmyview]

I stopped reading when OP said "I'm not racist.............but................"

[LabelsGalore]

But we are talking about A&E here are we? We are talking about routine appointments with a MW.
Because they are appointments rather than emergency, then yes I would expect to have and find an interpreter.

At A&E, well, I might not even be able top speak anyway. And if I needed to go because, let's say of a bad fall, then I would still try and take an interpreter with me.
Mainly because that's what I have done in other countries and come to expect when you live in a foreign country.
I would never feel entitled enough to expect that country to bend over just for me especially NOT in a cash strapped NHS

[Lovecat]

There's another issue here, even if these Polish women turn out to be mythical - I work in the NHS in MrsDV's neck of the woods and when dealing with women & children with no spoken English, interpreters are provided (when booked) or sometimes the staff on call (being in London there are many multilingual workers) are able to speak directly to the patient as unfortunately it often happens that the partner does not give a full translation to the patient/not disclose everything that the patient is telling them/the patient will not want to say stuff in the presence of their partner/MIL etc. There have been instances of abuse going on which are covered up by the language barrier.

[LabelsGalore]

Completely agree that people and especially women are much more vulnerable when having move abroad.
And it's not just women with low education. Just have a look at what is happening to some women once they have left the UK with their husband, difficulty to get support for themselves or their dcs.

but then surely, you should take that into account before moving?

[Jinsei]

ihatethecold, I'd love to know where you're based. My DH is a freelance interpreter (in two languages, one "rare" and one more mainstream). The rates of pay for NHS work are so poor that he rarely accepts the face to face jobs these days - they often work out at less than minimum wage by the time his travelling time has been taken into account. Work for other public services tends to be much better paid, presumably because the agencies aren't taking a cut. Telephone appointments or ad hoc requests are increasingly becoming the norm across the board.

To those saying that other countries don't provide such services, I can only note that DH provided similar services for foreign residents when we lived overseas in a non-EU country, and was much better paid for his troubles!

[VivaLeBeaver]

I work as a midwife in an area with a lot of polish, Lithuanian, Latvian women. The majority speak English. Those that don't most will bring someone to interpret. We should and do use phone translators rather than relying on relatives. The odd word been translated by a relative is fine, not the whole conversation though. We also have plenty of staff who speak Russian, polish and will use them when they're about to save money and time.

[cory]

specialsubject Wed 23-Jan-13 18:24:43
"If it IS an EU directive to offer interpreter services, as usual the UK is doing what much of the rest of the EU doesn't worry about."

I've seen plenty of leaflets about interpreter services in Swedish clinics and hospitals. The English always seem to think they are the only ones who let immigrants in, take in refuges, provide services for the vulnerable blahablaha.

[cory]

If 47% of this town's inhabitants- in other words, pretty well half of them- are Polish speakers, you'd have to wonder why there aren't any Polish speakers in the NHS who could interpret.

Since there manifestly is no such town in the UK, and the OP is therefore manifestly talking bollocks, I don't see why we should believe any other part of her posts.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Oh and I think the 47% population figure quoted in relation to a town population isn't 47% population but 47% of babies born in the town are Eastern European. I did read that somewhere on the Internet recently, but even that I think is exaggerated.

[TheVermiciousKnid]

Blatant shit stirring...

[ginmakesitallok]

labels - given that the majority of non-english speaking people living in the UK are on minimum wage jobs, how exactly do you think they should pay for an interpreter? Whether or not you took an interpreter with you to every appointment you went to in a "foreign country" doesn't take away the responsibility the NHS currently has to communicate effectively with patients. I'm pretty grateful we live in a country which provides interpreters in NHS.

[TheVermiciousKnid]

Oh, and OP (if you're still here...), the plural of woman is women.