to think if you want NHS care you should learn English or have an interpreter?

[theebayqueen]

My local town is now populated by 47% Polish - no problems as according to the figures 21% work so presumably speak English. I have to attend my local centre to see my Consultant and for scans. However, everytime I have been the centre is full of Polish woman who do not speak a word of English and expect the NHS to provide an interpreter. Thursday clinics are the worst as this is when the men have to attend the Job Centre to get "paid" so the ladies are left to fend for themselves. The men seem to be able to speak more English than the woman.

At first they were turned away as the MW's were unable to do their jobs properly but these ladies have filed a law suit against the clinic stating it is their human right to have NHS care as they are on the benefit system and that the NHS should provide full time interpreters for them.

If they win, does this not open up another can of worms that every person that can't speak English and on the benefit system is entitled to on demand interpreters?! This would then be another huge cost to the NHS.

I am in no way racist and if the UK wants to encourage people over here for benefits then so be it but when does the free stuff stop?! Should people not learn to speak English if they want to claim on the benefit system?

[tiktok]

Still waiting for the relevant links....c'mon, OP, where are they?

[ProtegeMoi]

My mother is profoundly deaf, she cannot hear at all and cannot speak well either.

Should she learn to talk / hear or be denied NHS care also?

If not what is the difference?

Saying your not racist dosn't mean you can then make racist comments without being challenged!

[whiteflame]

Depends on the demand though surely, EverybodyLies? If a significant proportion of the surgeries patients needed an interpreter, do you think they'd reconsider?

[whiteflame]

Protegemoi, presumably your mother would learn to hear if she could? That is the difference.

[eslteacher]

Its all very well saying they should 'learn English', but some people simply do not have the ability to reach a decent conversational level, at least not without a long uphill struggle lasting potentially many years. I'm an adult language teacher, and I have taught a few older adults who I cannot imagine ever reaching conversational level no matter what they do. This problem often relates to age: the older you are, often the longer and harder it will be to learn. But I've seen it in younger people too.

So in essence, I think its ridiculous to expect people to just 'learn English' as if it is simple, and deny them help/assistance in the meantime ESPECIALLY in relation to healthcare.

[Booboostoo]

I haven't read the whole thread because I could not be bothered, but yes you are racist and not particularly well informed either.

Here is the NHS interpreter line which has been functioning for many years now and can be used by anyone, for example, Welsh speakers:

www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/About/CallingNHSDirect/InterpreterService

[Booboostoo]

P.S. When I used to work in Leeds Medical School a very popular elective was Urdu and Punjabi as a lot of the students had plans to pursue a medical career in the area and these languages were widely spoken by the local population. Fancy that, doctors learning another language, whatever next!

[ConferencePear]

I was once taken ill in France. It never occurred to me to expect the hospital to provide an English speaker.

[ProtegeMoi]

Whiteflame You could argue that my mother 'could' try and learn to speak though, after all she dosn't even try anymore prefering to stick to sign language as that is what she is comfortable with.

What says that all Polish people COULD learn English. What is you were Polish and deaf so could not hear well, how about being Polish and having a learning disability that makes learning hard?

[ProtegeMoi]

Also how do you know these women are not learning English?

They could be going to a weekly language class to learn, it dosn't happen overnight you know so they would still need a translator whilst learning.

Or would you prefer they were denied medical care for themselves and their unborn babies because they don't speak English?

[LabelsGalore]

As a foreigner, I have to say I was extremely surprised to see that the NHS provides an interpreter for people like this.
I have travelled/worked abroad quite a lot and I have never seen that anywhere else apart from the USA where you can have people speaking spanish too in some areas.
I have worked in poland, went (privately) to see a doctor and even then it was expected I could speak some polish. As I didn't, we had to make do with a bit of english and a bit of (not that good for me) french. If it had been serious/issue with pregnancy, I would have taken an interpreter with me.

The issue here is that the NHS is stating clearly that they will provide an interpreter, that you can get leaflets in all sorts of languages. So I can see why a group of people (in this case Polish) would be mifted if they didn't get an interpreter when everybody else seem to do so. Especially in an area where the demands is clearly huge. But then with so many Polish people around, surely they should be able to find someone who speaks english to come with them (even if it's not their husband)?

[70isaLimitNotaTarget]

Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to how much it costs to hire an interpreter?

And if the patient doesn't turn up for the appointment, the interpreter still needs paid.

[therugratref]

If you took the Polish people out of my department alone in the hospital I work in, we would lose 5 dedicated and hardworking nurses, a talented and brilliant audit clerk and there would be no one to clean the floors and empty the bins across the entire 7 days. The NHS in London would be on its knee's without our Polish community.

[Bue]

Hmm I'm a student midwife in a very diverse area with multiple languages and many women who speak little or no English. I have never had someone demand an interpreter. (I have also only ever met a handful of Polish women who didn't have enough English to get through an appointment. Most of them speak passable English.) We do occasionally use the telephone interpreter service but usually we get by with partners interpreting, google translate and lots of gesturing! It is not ideal but we've had quite a few cases where women have refused to use the interpreter service because it's a man on the phone and they don't want to share personal medical details with him. It's not ideal and I've got no answers, but I don't blame the women. Some of them lead very isolated lives and they don't necessarily have the opportunity, or support from their husbands, to go to English classes. I wouldn't trade places with them :(

[whiteflame]

Fair point in your first post Protege. Some people might have disabilities that hinder them learning the language. But I'm living in a country that speaks a different language, and of the other expats I have met, very few have made any serious attempts to learn the language. They have gone to the beginners class for a few weeks, deemed it "too hard" and then moan that they can't understand their mail from the bank.

I appreciate that it is very difficult and takes a long time to learn a language. It's especially hard in a specialist situation like the doctors... earlier this week I took my dictionary to the doctor's surgery. But a lot of people aren't prepared to put in the effort and it's difficult to sort them out from the people who genuinely can't.

[FeckOffCup]

YANBU to think that people living in this country should make an effort to learn English but YABU to think they should be denied medical care, they may have been in this country for a very short time before becoming pregnant and not have had a chance to become comfident in speaking English before their medical appointments come around. The telephone interpretation service sounds like a good compromise if it saves the NHS money compared to having interpreters physically present.

[Forgetfulmog]

Surely it doesn't matter what other countries do or do not have, shouldn't the uk (as a world leader) be setting the standard?

Oh & btw OP, don't bother starting a debate if you can't back up your statements

[Delayingtactic]

I do not rely on relatives interpreting. Because they are crap at it, have their own bias and agenda. I have had times where I've either given a load of information and had the relative say one sentence to the patient or asked a question, the patient has chattered on and the relative turns round and gives a one word reply. It's crap, it's inefficient and its dangerous. I wholeheartedly agree that adequate communication means should be provided for by the NHS.

[notcitrus]

About £50/hour I'd guess, or less if they can arrange to have the same terp all afternoon for a bunch of patients.
Thing is, the question isnt the cost of terps, but how it compares to the costs of dealing with complications and emergencies that could have been more easily resolved if more information had been communicated earlier on. Which in the case of antenatal and delivery care, is probably loads.

For reference I speak fluent non-native German, but I've struggled in medical appointments, only managing because I have medical bsckground and technical words are very similar. I'm also deaf and usually dont bother getting a terp for medical appointments because it usually delays things and is easier just to have stuff typed if necessary. But I did for my first child and postnatal care, because as soon as I'm tired or in pain my comprehension plummets, and so would that for most people labouring in their 2nd language. The only other times I would insist on it would be for legal procedings.

[tiktok]

MrsDeVere, OP has been asked several times for links, and even said she would fire up her scanner (WTF?) but she has i) disappeared and ii) not provided any links

We asked where this place was with a 47 per cent population of Polish people, and where the women were 'seeking damages' from the NHS through the courts.

Answer so far has been a big fat nothing.

Honestly, you couldn' t make it up. Except in this instance, it looks very suspiciously the case that she has.

[tiktok]

Quick Google indicates £13 an hour for interpreters, who need to be trained and qualified to work in health and social care settings.

[ProtegeMoi]

FWIW the NHS have never provided an interpretator for my mother, I go along with her and do it. Which is always nice when it's a smear test and I have to ask my mother questions about her sex life and interpret the answers. She has asked on numerous occasions. I don't really believe this story TBH, but I do think interpretation should be provided and with the number of NHS staff that speak a second language don't believe it would be too difficult.