to think that closing schools actually isn't necessary at all?

[manicinsomniac]

I fully accept that I might be and I have several pros and cons in my head. Just interested in others' opinions.

Where I live we have had a lot of snow. Not all roads are clear. The school is in a rural area. 50% of staff and 80% of children live between 10 and 60 minutes drive away. We are open (due to our 20% of boarders) and only 2 staff members and 14 children (out of about 40 staff and 350 children) are absent.

The children were under no compulsion to attend (email just said come if safe) but they have made it so AIBU to think that closing for almost all other schools should not have been necessary?

Cons (reasons I think I might be BU):
*we don't very often get snow like this so maybe the children are gaining more by being at home and getting the chance to play in it.

• if all schools opened then the journeys might have been harder than they were and maybe it wouldn't be possible to get in (ie maybe it was only ok for us because the roads were quieter)
  
• For staff who are nervous drivers there is an awful lot of judgement
  
• The children who don't make it in are getting behind through no fault of their own.
  
  Pros (reasons I think I am not BU):
  
• the children continue to get their education
  
• the children are with their friends and have all the grounds to play in all together (we have an organised snow fight and a sculpture competition today for eg)
  *'community spirit and British reslilience' and all that jazz!

[FreckledLeopard]

DD's school has been open the entire time. She couldn't go on Friday as the minibus that collects her couldn't run, but everything back to normal yesterday (thankfully).

Her school also has boarders, but I think the fact that we pay so much in fees is a consideration too - at the end of the day the school needs to make money and keep the support of the parents. If it closed because of a few inches of snow, I don't think anyone would be very happy about it.

I had to come to work on Friday in the snow (with DD in tow) - I don't see why schools have to shut when businesses struggle to stay open.

[Yfronts]

It is necessary if the roads are sheet ice as they are here. I'm a confident able driver but the ice is just too dangerous and not worth the risk. Safety has to come first.

[Yfronts]

Even the 4 by 4's have struggled with the roads here - and the school is too far to walk

[RooneyMara]

Actually I just walked down to the HV clinic (and out again - way too busy!) and the pavements are shocking.

I'd no idea what they might be like yesterday when we stayed at home, but I'm really glad we did now - it was well dodgy with the pram, would have been terrifying on foot with baby in a sling.

I feel justified now that we didn't go to school.

[wordfactory]

No lecce pupils do not need the decision made for them by the HT.

Unless it really is not feasible to open a school (boiler problems etc), then parents are perfectly capable of making the decision as to whether the journey is too difficult. We do not need another adult to make that decision for us!

Both DC's schools were open with the (obvious) proviso that any parent or member of staff who felt the journey too perilous should use their own common sense. And that is what we all did!

This is exactly the same decision that every nurse/doctor/social worker/mechanic/waiter made...all my teacher friends were of the opinion that this is also a decision they were perfectly capable of making, what with them being intelligent adults and all.

[merrymouse]

I suspect that in countries where they have snow for many months of the year every year, both the school and the children are a little better prepared, e.g. schools are designed for snow, all children have proper snow clothes and snow boots, parents have snow chains on cars, public transport infrastructure designed to run in snow.

Of course there is a cost to all this - you pays your money, you takes your pick.

Equally, children who spend more than a couple of days every couple of years managing themselves in snow are a little better equipped to handle it safely.

[merrymouse]

wordfactory, if a teacher uses their common sense and decides that they can't go into work, who will look after their class for the day? If they decide that at 2.30 the transport situation is looking a little dicey, can they leave their reception class to fend for themselves? If a pupil can't get home can the caretaker just close up at 5pm and suggest they find a travel lodge?

It's not really the same as a waiter not turning up for work or a doctor or social worker cancelling their appointments for the afternoon.

I imagine that individual schools make individual decisions on snow days based on their staff, their pupils, their school building, their parents and their budget. However, that does not mean that its sensible for another school down the road to make the same decision.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

But presumably the head has to make a call on whether there will be a critical mass of teachers there who can make sure the school runs reasonably effectively for the day or not - and can't just wait and see who turns up?

If half the staff in an office can't make it in, the other half can probably get on with their own business relatively simply, but if half the staff can't, the other half can't cover all those lessons and all those children.

I don't know, I think it's as silly to say 'closing schools isn't necessary at all' as it would be to say 'closing all schools is necessary whenever there is snow'. A head teacher is there to make just this sort of call, and I doubt they do it lightly either way, since they must know how much flak they'll probably get no matter which way it goes!

[merrymouse]

? I am not sure where these school that you have seen were - Los Angeles?. The only point of comparison I have is ski resorts. Buildings and towns are certainly designed for the snow, in a way that is not considered necessary in Basingstoke, for instance. I know that in some parts of Canada they deal with the weather by not going outside when it gets really cold, so I assume schools are designed to accommodate this.

I don't think many self respecting Scandanavians and Canadians wear £10 Dunlops in the snow.

Having said that, they have snow days in the US too.

[Jux]

The primary school closest to us is approached by a very steeply sloping road. It ices over at the drop of a hat and becomes lethal. I expect a good 50% of pupils, parents and teachers would gain broken bones if the school hadn't closed on Friday.

DD's school (secondary) is approached by an even steeper slope. When it is iced up it too is lethal. Very sensibly, it was closed on Friday.

Both schools have been open this week, though. It is now snowing quite hard again, so I suspect they'll both be closed tomorrow.

[Pixel]

I do think dd's school should have been open, it is a secondary school, they aren't babies and a bit further to walk than normal wouldn't have killed them. It's only a half hour walk (in snow conditions) from the nearest main road where the buses were still running. DD went out and did her paper round so what's the difference?
I went to that same school and conditions are no better or worse than they were then if we had a bit of snow. In fact they are probably better because they no longer have to sit in freezing, leaky 'huts' to have lessons.
I wonder if the instant communication we have nowadays makes a difference? While I love that we can get a text telling us if the school is open rather than having to listen to the local radio and hope we don't miss the bit where they mention 'our' school, as we did when dd was smaller, it must mean that closing is an easier decision. In the olden days my youth, the schools couldn't make contact with parents easily (we didn't all have phones, I remember the excitement when ours was installed) and it was assumed that people would try to make it into school somehow, so they had to open.

[wordfactory]

But nit the schools that did remain open (both my DCs for example) must have done just that.
The HTs couldn't have known the exact number of staff/pupils who could/couldn't make it in.

And it worked out just fine...

[ouryve]

Most of the schools in our area did end up closed today.

In the last big freeze, a couple of years ago, a few schools had so much snow on their roofs (well over a foot) that they were falling in. There was also a problem of big lumps of snow falling off the roof onto the kids (lots of old victorian buildings with steep roofs) and gigantic icicles which were dangerous to walk under. It's not just the risk of slipping on uncleared pavements that needs to be worried about.

[merrymouse]

Actually, I'd imagine that Head Teachers did try to ascertain how many staff would be able to come in if it snowed, and whether they would would be able to cover for missing staff. Given that there was panic buying in supermarkets and gritters on the streets on Thursday and snow had been forecast for about a week, you'd be a pretty rubbish head if you just waited for people to turn up on Friday morning.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Ours stayed open too WOrd but I think there probably are definite things you can look at to know who will be in - for example if two buses from villages have said they're not operating, then you already know that's a big chunk gone.

Unless we are suggesting that HTs make it up off the tops of their heads on a random whim because they fancy a 'snow day' themselves (and I'd always thought of that phrase as a US import, actually), then it seems most likely that they probably consider transport for pupils, likelihood of weather worsening during the day, staff availability and heating and whatever else it is a HT has to think of which thankfully I don't, and then make a sensible decision. Why would one assume they're just being randomly stupid and that no school need ever close? Seem illogical and unduly ready to think the worst, I think.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Pixel I think you are right that the decision to close is probably easier to make because it can be communicated via text etc - I well remember at 12 sitting all morning in a CDT room waiting to be allowed home, watching the blizzard outside - the decision to close having been made at about 9.05 when all the buses didn't get there, but everyone's parents having to be telephoned at their places of work before we could be allowed to leave! They must have seen at 8 that it was going to be bad, but didn't take the decision, and couldn't have communicated it - and in that situation now, a text would probably be sent at 8am to save everyone the pointless kerfuffle!

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

(at 12 years old, I mean - not midday. We got out just about in time for lunch....)

[merrymouse]

£10 green Dunlop is the standard wellington boot where I live.

Generally public buildings in areas where it snows for large parts of the year have flooring and doormats that accommodate people trampling snow in and out, and sufficient cloak rooms. They also have public transport that runs through the snow and cars with snow chains, so travel isn't a problem and streets and pavements are regularly gritted. As I said before, this costs money.

Interestingly, New York Schools don't have to have 'recess' and some have very little outside space. They do, however, have snow days.

Personally, I am relaxed about my own children falling over in the snow, but I can understand why a teacher would be less relaxed about being legally responsible for other people's children falling over on ice.

(Is your spell check broken by the way?)

[perfectstorm]

If the local nurseries around here opened no problems, I don't see why the schools couldn't. Similarly, I don't see, if parents were advised by text message that the school would be closed, why they couldn't be told to send the kids in with a change of footwear, and a towel.

Not all parents/kids would comply, but most would. And some big blue paper towels could wipe the worst of the water off the shoes on those kids without slippers/plimsolls/shoes-instead-of-wellies.

I agree that it would be crazy to adapt to snow as it needs to be in Canada or Scandinavia. But there really hasn't been much snow around here. In fact it's far more dangerous this week, with all the ice, than it was on the snowy day, but the schools are all currently open.

[orangeandlemons]

Big blue papaer towels to wipe off excess water . There's 2000 kids in my school. How long would that take? Where would they do it? |Where would the towels be stored and disposed of?

My school was open today, and swimming in water again, with all the snow trudged in. I think what people don't get is the size of some of these places. They are the size of villages witheverybody moving round every hour. How could we possibly process towel wiping through the 1 main entrance and 1 smaller entrance to our school?

[IAmLouisWalsh]

It is much easier to close or partially close BEFORE all the kids get in than to send them home halfway through the day.

For example, last time we had horrendous snow, we had KS4 only in school - announced at 7.15am. Three KS3 kids who caught the bus in arrived. They then couldn't get a bus home as they were running an hour and a half late.

So, in a situation where there are maybe 10 staff on site by 8.30am, with potentially 800 kids due by 9am, then a late start is an option - but with no idea when people will get in, you risk having to send kids home again because there aren't enough staff to supervise.