to think that closing schools actually isn't necessary at all?

[manicinsomniac]

I fully accept that I might be and I have several pros and cons in my head. Just interested in others' opinions.

Where I live we have had a lot of snow. Not all roads are clear. The school is in a rural area. 50% of staff and 80% of children live between 10 and 60 minutes drive away. We are open (due to our 20% of boarders) and only 2 staff members and 14 children (out of about 40 staff and 350 children) are absent.

The children were under no compulsion to attend (email just said come if safe) but they have made it so AIBU to think that closing for almost all other schools should not have been necessary?

Cons (reasons I think I might be BU):
*we don't very often get snow like this so maybe the children are gaining more by being at home and getting the chance to play in it.

• if all schools opened then the journeys might have been harder than they were and maybe it wouldn't be possible to get in (ie maybe it was only ok for us because the roads were quieter)
  
• For staff who are nervous drivers there is an awful lot of judgement
  
• The children who don't make it in are getting behind through no fault of their own.
  
  Pros (reasons I think I am not BU):
  
• the children continue to get their education
  
• the children are with their friends and have all the grounds to play in all together (we have an organised snow fight and a sculpture competition today for eg)
  *'community spirit and British reslilience' and all that jazz!

[merrymouse]

I thought it was all to do with health and safety and ice.

The year before last DS's school was open on the day it snowed, open the next day (staff outside with shovels breaking through ice), but then gave up the fight on day 3.

[ouryve]

VBisme - most councils don't grit footpaths, unless it's a busy shopping area.

In our village, there is one main "priority 1" road straight through that is kept as clear as possible. Gritters and ploughs were out on that hourly today - it's several inches deep in slush at the moment. There's a priority 2 road down through the estate towards the school, as that's a bus route through the village. it wasn't gritted at all in 2010 when grit was running low. The road itself outside the school isn't ever gritted because it's not a through road and not a us route. Any footpath clearing and gritting is done by residents and shopkeepers, apart form outside the aged miners homes where the street wardens do it.

Anyhow, DS1 brought home some worksheets and a letter saying to check twitter or the school website after 7am. It's snowed all day here and is pretty hard going. DH got stuck and had to spend half an hour digging himself out just trying to get to our garage on this: www.flickr.com/photos/ouryveeee/8403127508/in/photostream

[Tinuviel]

I had days off and early finishes in South Leicestershire back in the late 1970s/early 1980s - it was fab and we loved it. But that was secondary and a lot of us were bussed in as it was a rural area and the coach companies made the decision, not the school.

Our school sent kids home today as the heating/hot water wasn't working and apparently you can't keep kids in if there is no hot water but it's fine for adults, so staff had to stay and do marking/preparation etc. Heating won't be fixed so apart from Y11 exams, no pupils are in but staff are expected to be there as they have a small part of the school now with heating.

[drownangels]

I would imagine schools in my area are more cautious than ever. About two winters ago a primary school girl slipped on ice in the school grounds and died.

[BeanJuice]

drownangels that's really sad

I can only think though that there's just as much risk of that happening when they're off school sledging and playing.

[drownangels]

BeanJuice you are right about thee being as much risk if they are elsewhere sledging and the like but if anything happened off the schools premises the school won't be responsible IYSWIM

[orangeandlemons]

For the last time! It isn't about the teachers it's about the kids. So teacher's aren't more fragile, but kids are. Teachers are a by product of this

[neverputasockinatoaster]

I'm a teacher and I was at work today. My kids were at school.

I travelled about 15 miles to get in. I didn't consider not going because the snow where I am is not that bad, I drive on main roads once I'm off my estate and I have winter tyres. However the roads weren't gritted....

The town I work in had 2 schools closed - one is a special school and had transport issues and the other has a high proportion of staff living a fair distance away.

One of my colleagues lives a fair old drive away. She was struggling to get in but was told turn up or not get paid........

I'm torn on this one. I do feel some schools close much too quickly BUT I don't feel we should travel if we are likely to put ourselves in danger. I couldn't have reported to my local school because it was closed!

[alistron1]

I'm quite old and can remember schools closing in the 80's because of heavy snow. On Friday we had snow predicted here, in the morning it wasn't snowing so a lot of schools decided to open. By 10 am many if them were closing as conditions deteriorated. My daughters school was in a situation where no buses were running from it and many of the children had very long walks home in heavy snow. My daughters journey took about an hour and a half. Today (after loads more snow over the weekend) the school closed - if it hasn't, given the state if the roads here I'd have advised her to stay at home.

Luckily my daughter is 16, but I shudder to think how she'd have coped with Friday as a little Y7 eleven year old.

Pupil safety (and this includes considering how they will get home in the event of bad weather etc) should be at the heart of school life. And 'macho/can do' heads who are determined to open at any cost clearly do not have the kids best interests at heart.

Where I live the advice from the police and council today was to only travel if necessary. Easing the traffic on the roads today meant that essential workers/services could do what they needed to do.

[Pixel]

I don't know exactly what radius special schools take their children from but is it really that much more than an hour?

It does normally take ds an hour to get to school on the school transport yes, but that isn't really the point. Ds got sent home early from school on friday when the snow started, but by the time the taxi got back here the road was impassable. We are on a steep hill (which is a bus route but never gritted so we are always cut off but that's a different story) and the taxi/minibus couldn't get up it so dh walked down to meet it. Poor ds has limited mobility and he was frozen by the time he'd struggled home but at least he can walk as dh would never have got his wheelchair up the hill. Tbh I was just grateful they got him as close as they did, imagine being stuck somewhere on an icy road with a taxi full of severely autistic children!
His school is on top of a steep hill also, they generally get snow there when we don't get any so I imagine they had it much worse.
The other aspect to consider is that they need much higher staff ratios at the school, a lot of the classes have 1:1 and it only takes a few staff to be unable to make it in to make the situation unsafe (especially for children with medical needs, epilepsy etc).

[sashh]

In Wales a school bus slipped off the road, thankfully no one was hurt but it was a close call.

www.southwalesargus.co.uk/

I think the main reason schools shut is safety. Is it safe for staff and pupils to

a) get to school
b) stay in school
c) get home again

If it is safe then you can start looking at staffing ratios.

[lecce]

4 inches of snow...not really atrocious is it?

No but it is enough to make driving conditions pretty atrocious. Three years ago I set off for work in thick snow that was still falling. I got what would usually have been 5 minutes from the house and got a text to say that we were shut. It took me two hours to travel that 5 minute distance back home. Most of it was an inner-city ringroad but it was rammed. It is not sensible for people to be risking that sort of thing just to save having a day off school - especially where young children are concerned.

Also, how does anyone know 4 inches is it? If snow continues, or is forecast to continue, then heads need to think about how everyone is going to get home.

[OrangeLily]

2 years ago our school was shut for a week because of snow, the day it reopened we all made the huge journey in. A 40 minute journey took 2 hours but fair enough. It then shut mid morning. However lots of roads then shut and many teachers were stuck on roads in blizzards in their cars.

We also had the school buses cancel stranding lots of kids in the school. With parents stranded on shut roads too.


It was a mess. I very nearly didn't get home that day. Lots of kids involved in dangerous situations on the way home too. I got home in the evening having left in the morning. Friends of ours were stuck on the M8 overnight.

YABU

[frogspoon]

It isn't about the teachers it's about the kids.

So would it take the death of a teacher driving to/from work on a snowy day to make schools think about the practicalities of opening the school in this weather when the roads are not gritted. Or perhaps a teacher slipping over in the ungritted car park and breaking a leg/ having a concussion and suing the school?

In the school I work in the paths bewteen the buildings were gritted. The local roads and staff car park were not. The school did open and to my knowledge fortunately there were no incidents.

[wordfactory]

But every other worker in the land had to deal with the same conditions. Every other worker in the land had to make an adult decision about travelling.

I don;t know anyone except my teacher friends who had the decision made for them.

[merrymouse]

I really do think its all about insurance and liability.

Most people aren't responsible for so many children when they go to work.

Most of the people in a school can't be held legally responsible for their own safety and can't be left to their own devices should their travel arrangements break down.

The legal situation has changed since the 70's and 80's. You might not agree with the changes, but you can't expect teachers to ignore them.

[lecce]

And have you told your 'teacher friends' your views about their lack of common sense and possible unfitness to teach? Isn't it blindingly obvious that the reason that teachers are the only ones who have the decision made for them is because pupils have to have the decision made for them, so by default, teachers do too? We don't really need to start banging on about how fragile and ridiculous teachers are do we?

[JakeBullet]

Most work places don't have to consider people who are vulnerable. Children are vulnerable and like it or not Head teachers have to consider this. Add the ridiculous and risky parking which goes in outside schools and add icy conditions then potentially you have a problem if you DO open and a serious accident occurs. The same people dismissing the Head as "precious" would be asking "why on earth did the school open in these conditions".

[lovelyladuree]

A day later, and the school have re-opened and the paths are roads are trecherous. Not one path was cleared in the school grounds, but there was a wipeboard outside with a message asking parents to return with shovels to help clear the paths. So, despite no change to the driving conditions, all teachers miraculously made it into work today. Heroes.

[JakeBullet]

All ours have been done loverlyladee, and they opened yesterday too....just a bit later to allow everyone to get in safely and to avoid the rush hour.
Presumably you have kept your children off today if you think the roads and school paths are treacherous. It's likely the the decision to close yesterday had nothing to do with the teachers and everything to do with the Head. No doubt if the head decided to open yesterday the teachers would have "miraculously made it in" then as well.

[RooneyMara]

We made it into school today as our lovely neighbour cleared the drive. And the roads are Ok-ish.

The school playground though is absolutely covered with icy snow, more cruncy than icy at the moment but I dread what it will be like if it freezes overnight.

Bloody lethal. They have a useless caretaker though, what did I expect...I think they will remain open even if it does freeze, just hope they don't send the kids out to play on it.