AIBU to think that high streets and small towns will be thing of the past?

[Lonelybunny]

Well now due to Jessops going broke and clintons and woolworths our town has hardly any shops left. It's so depressing down there, do you think the only shops left will be super stores, like asda and tesco? Maybe due to them selling everything and of course online shopping. I feel so bad for all the retail staff loosing jobs yet again.

[OiMissus]

Times they are a changing.
The truth is, the consumers don't want little high street shops any more. Not in vast enough numbers to allow profitability.
The independent high street shops couldn't compete with the chain, the high street died. Now the chains haven't changed their business models in line with consumer demand - so it's their turn to die. The shops that are dying are the tech-related goods retailers - they simply can't compete with online retailers. Consumers want good/fast, or cheap/fast. we're used to asking for info/stuff and getting it immediately.
The high street needs to change.
Residential properties are obvious and a good idea, but in order to encourage people to get out and interact with others, we need something more interesting than coffee shops and hairdressers (stuff we can't do online).
The other thing that needs to happen is we need a better way to send stuff back to online retailers. Maybe local post offices could start offering a 'we'll pack it and ship it' service. Maybe a Ebay On The High Street - somewhere you could take your things to sell, and leave them to do all work for you, for a commission.
Malls win because they are weatherproof, offer free parking, and really easy to negotiate with a pram/wheelchair etc - no kerbs or door jambs.

[alemci]

yes the ebay shop is a good idea in some ways especially if items are bulky and difficult to post.

[ArielThePiraticalMermaid]

Good post. And the places which are flourishing with independents are used by the people who have the money and the inclination to want to support local businesses. And they also like to think they are the type of person to do this, so they spread the word, which in turn encourages other similar people to do the same.

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

MurderofGoths I waited tables for many years in my early 20's, I'm well aware of how long customers can languish whilst I'm paid nearly nothing for the privilege of cleaning up after them an hour + after we close.

I think I said in my post that shops should consider later opening hours. I don't blame retail staff for being irritated when customers show up late, but since we're in a thread about "why people don't want to shop on the high street", I think it's a valid point. Shops in small towns aren't open late enough for people to easily visit after work, and more people work now.

The price and inconvenience of parking also keeps us out of town.

I think small shops that take the initiative to have a web presence as well are the ones that have staying power.

[MurderOfGoths]

I agree GreenEggs Current opening hours just aren't convenient.

[gazzalw]

That's an interesting point about the shops being more flexible in opening/closing times....

DW was commenting that on our local high street most of the shops don't open until after 9.30 am (if not 10.00 am some days) and for those parents who drop off from the school run and then just go and do their shopping/admin chores, there's often a half an hour pause which either drives one into a coffee shop (what's the alternative in this cold weather) or deters one from going to high street in the first place...

Perhaps high streets need to consider alternating their opening hours on different week days and synching them to the banks etc.... And perhaps consider offering cheaper if not free parking on the low foot-fall days of the week? In this economic climate the shops and councils need to be chasing/courting the shopper not the other way round....

[MoreBeta]

In the last 3 days I got a whole load of clothes for the children, table mats and champagne glasses, wine and food all delivered to my door from online retailers.

One of those retailers was John Lewis which also has shops on the high street. Multi channel online and high street is the way of the future. Next is another retailer that has done this multi channel shift very well indeed and is prospering

[Jins]

John Lewis has become a place to display the big ticket goods that can be bought online. Some things can be bought off the shelf but most are out of stock and have to be ordered.

I think it's the way forward. Most of us go to look at something in store and then go home to find it cheaper on the internet nowadays.

[garlicblocks]

Some stores are developing mobile apps, theoretically so you can instantly order the item you're looking at in the store. I know some have been looking into automatic price-matching with their apps, too. Don't know how any of this is progressing but it's an interesting approach to the issue.

[YouOldSlag]

Hi Jins,

There was an article about that recently where a journo tried to buy something on the High Street that he could take home the same day and he couldn't do it. He couldn't even buy a lamp!

Although I shop online for a specific item, I also like to come home with something new and once that thrill's gone, then there's little point going to shops in person if they just become galleries. I love coming home with new stuff, and it's not because I'm materialistic, I't just an age old feeling, like getting a little present.

[mam29]

Ok

comments about smiths made me chuckle they always trying to flog me reduced chocs.

But they so cheap for books.

They invested heavily in kobo e readers not sure why as kindles control market and kobo more pricey.

stationary/toys agree complete mess.

not sure if local still does fags security guard follows most people around.

not very competative cds/dvds/

They really dont have that many stores and I live in big bristol they were never every suberb like woolies was the city centre has 1, out town mall has one. infact can ponly think of 3large stores plus airport/2train stations maybe thats where they make their money?

Boots has most generous loyalty card
opticians in some stores-always dead
love the kids clothes sadly they dont do much online
but self service in all local shops fear has been a mistake
in same was saisburys its turn off.

I would pay more and visit more often to have human contact
plus it means less staff get employed.

I think argos will survive bit longer yet not sure about homebase we brought sofa from them and its dreadful.

blockbusters thourght had gone or was franchised never use anymore.

I think independants have to open later my green grocer in roath when lived in cardiff was open until 7-8pm at night.

maybe every high street should offer late night shopping once a week not just xmas.

Theres nothing like going shopping coming home with bag in hand and meeting up with my freinds, its social ocassion.

Onlines all well and good but many inflexible on delivery slots nothing worse than sorry we misssed you and have to go depot/sorting office miles away.

At xmas mini micro used odd courier who lost the scooter.
Their depot was chaos was 12 of us standing there stressed while they tried to locate parcels not to mention yodel who deliver to untrustworthy neighbours you dont know, fake signatures and throw over garden gate.

[MurderOfGoths]

7-8pm I would.

[Darkesteyes]

talking about this on Question Time now. Grant Shapps is dragging out the Mary Portas defence.

[FiveGoMadInDorset]

Our high street is thriving in both our small market town and our larger county town.

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

I watched this on QT last night as well. I think the dark-haired woman (sorry, I didn't watch the introduction so I wasn't sure who was who) fumbled in her blame of internet companies. She made her statement but then was asked to list the tax advantages internet companies have, she couldn't list any, just said they had them and that oh, Amazon avoided tax last year, and that's not right.

Well I think we've learnt that all kind of companies are avoiding tax, it's not just limited to the internet. It's the fact that those companies are big enough to have an international presence that leaves them able to take advantage of these lax tax laws here. So if the argument is "don't shop at large shops with locations around the world, only shop with local traders", then make that argument.

Internet companies have advantages, of course; that's how they can undercut high street shops. I just didn't think the correct arguments were made. Internet companies avoid high street rents (a big expenditure) as well as extra personnel (they employ people, of course, but not locally, and not in the numbers which high street shops have to). The government effectively closed the tax loophole which Play.com, FragranceDirect.com etc were using last year when they restricted the amount of tax-free shopping they could ship from Jersey. (Not coincidentally, Play.com has announced they'll be stopping their retail business in March this year. As soon as they had to compete at regular prices, they lost their market)

And I love Mary Beard but her comments were also just an editorial on how she likes to touch things in shops.

A politician (again, don't know his name) mentioned a retail park near him and how much easier it is for people to shop there: free parking, and no worry about children being around cars etc as you're walking around to shop. Hell, he had me at "free parking." :)

I'm lucky enough that I'm in a market town and if I want the social experience, I can go to the market for veg and the other things a market does best. However, I admit, I really enjoy being able to order things online, and I know I'm not alone.

[BadLad]

So if the argument is "don't shop at large shops with locations around the world, only shop with local traders", then make that argument.

I would love to, when back in the UK, but in the current economic climate, everybody is struggling, and it is hard to tell anyone that they should forego lower prices (if that is what the large shops offer).

[YouOldSlag]

The Ideal High Street (this is my opinion) would have

1.free parking,
2.regular buses,
3.a busy cab rank,
4.well stocked shops that you can shop in even when you're skint (there is a place for Poundland, it gets footfall),

1. a regular market,
   
2. some jolly buskers,
   
3. extended opening hours so that nine to fivers don't have to do everything on a Saturday
   
4. lower rent and rates so you can get some nice independent shops in there too.
   
5. Some outdoor food outlets to waft tasty coffee and cake type smells about.
   

10. Benches for a nice sit down.

[gazzalw]

And I would add, decent loos....It is actually getting more and more difficult to go shopping on the high street and spend any length of time shopping without stopping for a drink or something to eat (which you don't always or can't always afford to do...). Even the retail parks don't seem to have toilets these days...

[YouOldSlag]

Very true, and I speak as someone who has to pee about 20 times a day. They need loos, family loos and Disabled loos. If they want people to spend a few hours there, High Streets must have loos, food and drink.

[Catriona100]

I manage my tax liability, you evade paying tax, he is a tax cheat... its one of those what-do-you-call-thems like I am eccentric, you are odd, he is barking mad!

Tax management is as old as tax itself, its just people have got really worked up about it recently.

[YouOldSlag]

It's true, offshore banking and offshore shelf companies have been a mainstay for many successful businesses over the years and that's nothing new.

However, public feeling about Amazon is in a poor state as we feel cheated that Amazon (and ebay, and Starbucks) are profiting from us but not profiting the UK in anyway.

It's also leaving as bad taste in the mouth that HMV, a company almost 100 years old, Woolworths, Blockbusters and Comet have all been killed off by Amazon and eBay's ability to undercut High Street prices.

I'm not saying we should pay higher prices to keep businesses afloat, but the above-named High Street shops have all paid UK tax and are now out of business, with thousands of job losses

Amazon is just pocketing profits and taking the piss.

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

You can say that, and parts of it I agree with, but some of them died due to their own inability to adapt. Most people have LoveFilm or whatever now; I'm amazed Blockbuster lasted this long. I don't have LoveFilm myself, but if I were keen on renting films, I'd use it. I haven't been inside a Blockbuster in probably 10 years. I still remember why: they had ridiculously high late fees. It took them years to get into line with other rental options and extend their rental periods/ lower their late fees. They eeked out a few more years by expanding their game rental options.

Tesco and Asda undercut HMV and other high street shops, as well. HMV was comically expensive by comparison; there was no way I could justify paying their prices anymore.

I think the only way to avoid that sort of undercutting is to introduce a system like Germany has, where shops can't discount an item more than a certain amount below its RRP. I don't like this option, personally, but it would favour high street shops.

Amazon and all the other tax evaders, well, it does grate. The tax laws need to be changed, though. You just can't expect companies to "do the right thing" when it comes to profits. I wonder how many UK-only shops would do the same if they had the same option those international companies do.

[mam29]

Im intrigued to know if high streets gone same way in europe?

or is this uk thing?

been to various euro countries on hols sadly not recently but

paris-chains yes but independants also

copehgagen same-denmark quite pricey too.

greece-loads independants the big cities had a few chains, spain similar.

I was watching sky news with envy today.

Yesterday they were in Abergavennny was funny as mam said it wasent that bad there.

Today nearby crickhowell more a village than town no chains and green griocer saying how hes personally delivered to locals, stayed open and well stocked when hear about freind whos food delivery been cancelled despite roads being clear near her in reading.

We had snow and had no shopping yesterday.

Today hubby went spar as nearest yes its a chain but think its a franchise.

Co-op has amazon lockers now.

must admit have used amazon over xmas for couple things.

Im changing way do foodshop from no on and buying all my meat from local independants.

Agree the question time debate over high street was rubbish.

The mart portas pilots ended

im hlaf tempte to visit debminster at some point this year see ho its changed.

I suspect it be like a stage when pilot running then when all attention gone go back to normal

Thinking banning tesco for good.

[ArielThePiraticalMermaid]

Interesting about Europe. The country I know best is France, and they have supermarkets everywhere along with vast hypermarchés. But their small town shops seem to be thriving at the same time. What's the difference. Anyone know anything about French commercial life?