to think I am a USELESS mum - don't know how others do it.

[abouttohaveameltdown]

Have spent most of today in tears and am disgusted with myself.

Have DD 3.5 and DS 16months. Just cannot seem to cope and don't know how others do.

DS requires my atention full time. He is very high maintenance. He is into everything and you cannot turn your back on him for a second. He is quite a clingy and tearful baby and I just feel I cannot look after him and DD and DD suffers. All she ever hears from me is Later, Not just now, Sorry I have to look after DS.

She got lots of lovely toys for Xmas, jigsaws, games, etc and all she wants to do is play with me but it's literally impossible, DS comes and trashes whatever she is playing with or I need to stop playing with her after a few minutes to take his fingers out the socket/stop him pulling furniture on top of himself. I love him so much it hurts but I do not know how to manage them both. She still has a nap so the only time we get together is a brief half an hour before her bedtime, which is often interrupted by DS waking. DH works long hours and is rarely home before 9 - no option for this to change.

Today he wouldn't stay in his high chair at dinner and screamed his head off to get out, when I let him out he just kept climbing up on the dinner table, so I put him in his play pen thing and he just screamed. Eventually poor DD was left to eat dinner herself while I managed him. Earlier today it genuinely broke my heart, after trying and failing to do her jigsaw with her a few times and DS breaking it she packed it in his box and went up to her room and did it by herself. I sat and cried.

My house is a filthy mess, I am exhausted and overweight, I don't have the time or energy to make healthy meals so just stuff crap in my mouth all day. I haven't washed my hair for days and I have BO. When they go to bed I spend 2 hours cleaning then go to bed myself. We couldn't afford a cleaner. I have no time to read or watch TV or do anything. I always have the intention of taking them to playgroup but by 9am I'm so exhausted I can't face it, I told you, I'm useless. More often than not I stick the TV on in desperation for DD as any attempt at play is just thwarted. I found myself screaming at DS today WILL YOU JUST LET HER PLAY!!! Then burst into tears as I was so disgusted with myself at shouting at my baby.

[MidnightMasquerader]

Oh my goodness - seriously, I can relate. Most of us can. Honestly. I'm not just saying that.

The age your two are at the moment is so, so hard.

But it WILL get better. I promise you. It will! My two are nearly 4 and 2.5 and I was thinking to myself just last week that it is already better than that hellish time when DD was still really a baby and DS wasn't as verbal as he is now.

Seriously - in just the space of a few months, things have improved markedly. It's still hard and I still beat myself up for times when I'm just exhausted and at the end of my tether, but I can see it is improving.

Children are bloody hard work. I couldn't have been more deluded, pre-children, as to the amount of work they require...! Blinkers well and truly removed now, though!

[ImNotCute]

YANBU. I have dd age 4 and ds 12 months. I also often feel I am not doing a good enough job with either of them.

Can your dd do her jigsaws/ other activities up on a dining table or something while ds plays with cars or whatever around your feet? Or would he still be able to get up to her level and cause mayhem?

I think a little quality time with your dd can actually go a long way. Can you plan some weekend trips with her? My dd loves me to take just her out shopping or to the cinema. If we plan it in advance she really looks forward to it and maybe that helps her get though the times when she doesn't have my attention.

[Hassled]

a) You're not useless. We've all been there, I promise. I remember sitting on some stairs with a screaming DC in one arm and a screaming DC in the other thinking "I have no idea what to do so I will just keep sitting here".

b) This will all seem more manageable if you take care of yourself. Sod the 2 hours housework (keep the kitchen and the loo cleanish, put the rubbish out sometimes and that'll do) and have a shower/ a bath. You will be a better mother if you value yourself a bit, and a bit of self-care will help enormously with that. You may still be overweight but you'll at least be clean and overweight!

c) Get out of the house at each and every opportunity, regardless of weather, regardless of whether you want to. Just go - exhaust the toddler, do some people-watching, chat to your DD. You will feel better for it.

[YesAnastasia]

The fact that you're trying so hard to make it work & you care that much it's depressing you means you could never be a useless mum!

I am exactly the same. Some days I'm so tired & so disorganised that I don't even brush my teeth never mind wash my hair (btw - get some dry shampoo if you haven't already) but it is getting better. Mine are now 2 & 3.5.

Please don't compare yourself to other mums either. I've always wondered how mums with immaculate hair, make up, clothes & house actually give their children any attention (or how they get their children to not kill each other while they're doing it )

Chin up. It really doesn't last forever, I promise.

[MissBetseyTrotwood]

And YES it will pass. Mine are a good bit older now and their 20mo apart means they play together all the time, share the same friends and love the same toys and movies etc. And because they're older, they have learnt how to share them!

[MidnightMasquerader]

Yes! I think this is a big part of why it's got noticeable easier for me too - the DC are 18 months apart and play together now. Talk to each other and are into all the same things.

The smaller age-gap does come into its own evetually. :)

[sudaname]

17months between my two (now adults) but l remember it well. My DD the eldest actually developed speech problems and regressed badly to just a few baby type grunts etc when she wanted something. Took her to a speech therapist and referred to a behaviour psychologist (or whatever she was called) it eventually came out that it was all sibling rivalry/jealousy and she was in fact trying to actually be her baby brother so she would get my attention back . She actually once was found sitting on his bedroom floor aged 2 or 3 and she was physically trying to contort herself into one of his babygros .
I suppose in her little mind she figured that if she could be like him as much as possible l would pay her more attention like l did when she was my pfb.

Only advice l remember is the baby will be less bothered than the toddler if you put them off/leave them crying for a minute or so and make a big thing to the toddler that you are dealing with them first. OTOH it will mean a lot to the toddler.
Your house is getting two hours a day cleaning that's an hour more than mine so l am sure it is easily an acceptable standard even if you dont always get chance to deep clean anywhere - but so what - it can wait.
Why not use one of those(or even half) two hours to spend on YOU - much more important. Use it for a shower /blow/dry hair or whatever. Otherwise you do downward spiral and your self esteem takes a bashing if you neglect your personal care . I used to always find time to do the washing clean the house etc etc and then do things for me - guess what gets left out,when you run out of time - yeah your time. So these days if my hair needs washing and there's a pot full of sinks - l always wash my hair first. l feel so much better and guess what- those pots are still waiting.
As others have said can you get any help with babysitting/DGPs etc a few hours a week or take your baby to nursery at 9am and just keep little girl with you perhaps.

[wonderstuff]

You are not useless.

It is very difficult, and this time of year is particularly bad, 16mo is particularly trying. I echo what others say about getting out, while they are at toddler group they aren't trashing your house. Do you have any friends nearby? Other grown ups make so much difference. I wonder if homestart could offer you any support - I would approach your local SureStart centre to see if they can support.

My children are 2.5 and 5 now and they play beautifully together often. They disappear upstairs and play for ages. Sometimes I get to read a paper and have a cuppa. It will get easier. For now though don't be to hard on yourself, do the minimum housework and try to get some real life support.

[Themobstersknife]

Do you use DD's free nursery hours? If not, is than an option?
Can DD have friends round? At her age they will play quite nicely prob, and will want you to ignore them!
Have you got a little table and chairs? DD might prefer to sit at that than in highchair. Might make him act more grown up.
Do you have a slow cooker? Easy and quick way to get healthy food in you all.
I second going out for a walk. I have a 9 month and 3.5 year old and sometimes you just need to get out. Do you have a buggy board?
Don't clean in the evenings. Do a quick tidy - ie hide toys! - then feet up with wine / hot choc / whatever floats your boat, then quick shower and go to bed with wet hair!
You are not useless. I couldn't do your job. I can't wait to get back to work!

[PomBearWithAnOFRS]

If he screams in the playpen let him scream. Ten minutes won't hurt him while you just have a five minute breather and read DD a story or do a puzzle. Give DS a biscuit, that'll shut him up and any crumbs will wipe up.
Take them both in the bath with you. Hold DS on your knee and let DD sit at the other end and splash in the bubbles and play with the toys to amuse her brother. OK so you won't get to lounge and actually bathe as such, but you won't have BO and it will while away an hour or so of the day and will relax you all a bit.
It won't be long until the weather improves enough that you can get out, in the garden or to the park, maybe get one of those cars with the parent pole that you can push DS in and trundle him along while DD rides a little bike. Ok so it might take you an hour to go the length of the street, but who cares?
OR get them both wellies and waterproof trousers and coats and go out even when it's raining. It'll tire them out jumping in puddles.
You will never ever be able to "do it all" and have a show house and be immaculately turned out with perfect picture plate children, but you can get past worrying about it. As long as you are all warm, dry, and fed, and nobody is going to catch anything from the kitchen or bathroom, you're doing a good job No job is ever as hard as parenting more than one small child - one on its own is hard enough, but more than one is hard work. You can do it though, you'll all get through it, and before you know it you'll be saying "Where has the time gone, DS is off to school"

[fairylightsandtinsel]

my two are pretty much the same ages as yours. They will actually play really nicely together with their wooden train set. If we lay out a big enough track and they have a few engines each, with supervision, they can play on that for ages. You have to "referee", in the case of stolen trains, knocked out track etc but its a way of playing with them both constructively. How about strapping DS into his highchair and doing drawing / playdough / fingerpaints with them both together? My friend had a slightly bigger gap and when her eldest was 4/5 and the baby mobile they sectioned off a bit of the living room with one of those stairgate type things that go all the way across and the older one would do craft and things involving chokably small bits in there. Is that possible? You could then move between the two areas? Can your older one go to pre-school? I feel less guilty about not doing stuff with DS because he goes every day, so on the 2 afternoons he is with me (I work part time) if he is vegging a bit, that's fine.
Please believe me when I say i do get what you mean - I use TV a lot. My older one is less into jigsaws than his sister so we have less of a problem in that regard and fortunately DH is home for bath, dinner and bedtime so we can do one each but I do sometimes find it almost impossible, but agree with those who say get out if you can. Go to a softplay when its quiet, during the school day. Your oldest can run about a bit and you can keep an eye on them both. Toddler groups likewise. You are not rubbish, it is hard, but please do do the basics for yourself also, as others have said, just knowing you are clean and tidy and presentable will make the idea of going out the door less daunting.

[TreadOnTheCracks]

Will he sit on the sofa with you while you read to them both? All 3 of you read a book.

I have a slightly smaller age gap than you but was saved by the fact that my 2nd dc was a fab sleeper, 2 hour naps, so I would always spend a little time, even if just 10 mins, with older one. Often it just wasn't possible to do more than that. My house was chaos, if you do 2 hours at night yours must be sparkling compared to mine!

I did make the effort to get out of the house, I would have gone absolutely spare without outings to look forward to. Would keep the change bag packed, and just go, shut the door on it - one tidy up in the evening of all the mess.

I have a rule, I always sit down by 8.30 pm at night an have an hour on the sofa.

Of course you know this will pass. It will get better, there will come a time they will play together - I promise.

[Zappo]

I have found having two under 5 very hard. I often recommend this book www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Shoes-One-Sock-Hairbrush/dp/0304354295?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

but realise you don't have a lot of time to read at the moment.

Do you have to spend two hours cleaning? Once my two are in bed and I've been on the go for 12/13 hours I just have to sit down/ eat/drink/ watch TV mumsnet for a couple of hours. It's what keeps me sane.

I do a bit of clearing up/washing up as I go along in the day (after meals etc) and save most of the washing and hoovering for weekends.

I would advise you to do the bare essentials for the time being. Whatever you need to do to keep sane (Cbeebies, fish fingers, friends with kids round, park once a day).

You sound like you have a lovely DD by the way. Mine was and is pretty jealous and was and is quite aggressive towards her sister (imagine being asked by your child to kill the baby on a daily basis and seeing your baby pushed, hit and grabbed when something doesn't go the eldest's way)

And yet I did everything I could to spend time with my eldest. Left DD2 with DH at weekends, spent lots of time playing with her during DD2's naps, bent over backwards to make sure I gave her lots of attention and DD1 was the one who life really difficult.

Your DS is giving your DD loads of provocation and yet she seems to be so patient with the situation. Your relationship must be so strong and secure and it will survive this and get better soon so don't worry too much about her.

Worry about yourself for the moment and getting through each day as best you can. It is hard though. I often regret having two because it is so much harder than one ( although I wouldn't be without either of them).

[Meggymoodle]

Definitely been there done that and am still doing it!

I have a 2 year old and a nearly 4 year old and those last few months since DD turned 2 have made no end of difference. They play nicely together quite a lot of the time now.

Last winter though - man alive, I got so stressed thinking that I would be there again this winter that I went to counselling before the autumn because I just literally couldn't bear the thought of being trapped in the house with two small children!

However, I would definitely get out of the house. Go to a play group - yes it's HIDEOUS trying to get out of the house. We always have some major ruction on the way out but once we're out the front door - everyone's mood improves and it is SO much easier to entertain them if you go to a toddler group or something.

I shout at my kids way too much and always feel terrible about it. You are doing way better than I am.

Also your DD will have funding for 15 hours childcare - get her into a pre-school if only for a couple of mornings a week. She will really benefit from it and so will you. It is my saving grace that DS goes to pre-school 3 days a week and I now have put DD in one morning for 3 hours so that I can have time on my own with DS. Definitely worth doing if you can afford it.

[Zappo]

www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Shoes-One-Sock-Hairbrush/dp/0304354295?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[pointythings]

I think this is the hardest age combo - I recall it being tough, and that was with me working f/t and the DDs being in nursery, plus I had DH on the scene. You sound like you're doing it alone with no break at all - be kind to yourself, you are allowed to find it hard.

I'd really second taking up the 12.5/15 hours of free nursery provision for your DD - she's at an age now where she can really benefit you, and it will give you and DS some one to one.

Also, it will get easier when your DS is secure on his feet and most of all talking - then they can start playing together more. I found 19 months a real turning point with DD2 when her speech improved so much that she and DD1 could interact and play cooperatively.

[DoodlesNoodles]

Lots of good advice.... We have all been there!

It DOES pass, honestly, it does

Definitely try and get out every day. Sign up for playgroups, library time, swimming or whatever. It is hard work but it feels much better. Get on the phone and find out what is available locally. Chatting with others in the same situation helps a lot too. There may be free or cheap activities available.

In some ways it's easier to stay home but going out makes you have a bit of structure to the day and helps pass the time.

Let your son cry sometimes, you don't have to be perfect and lovely all the time.

Don't worry if you stick him in front of the TV to get some peace. It is OK.

Make the house as child proof as possible.

You can either decide to let the housework slip or you may feel better if you keep on top of it. It depends on you. Personally, I preferred to battle and keep on top of things as I felt more relaxed in a tidy'ish house. If you are doing two hours of housework your house should be sparkling .

I would also try and eat properly, it depends what your definition of crap food is but if you are eating unhealthy carb/suger junk food that may make you feel a bit 'blah' IYSWIM . I just mean simple quick food, nothing fancy.

Finally, try as hard as you can to do something for yourself. You should try to keep on top of showering/keeping your hair clean etc. Not because it matters but because you will feel better if you do. Is it possible to get a babysitter once a fortnight so you and you DH can go out without the DC's.

Good luck. I hope it gets better soon.

[SunbathingintheRain]

You are not useless. I feel just the same sometimes. I think most (all?) of us do but just think others are managing better. Two kids close together is tough, no question.

Some thoughts just in case any of this is new/helpful:

• You need to build in some relaxation time for yourself as an absolute priority - IMO this is a much higher priority than the housework! Have a hot bath, watch some telly with a glass of wine, whatever will make you feel good.
  
• At the weekends can your DH have your DS for a good solid chunk of time so that you can spend some lovely quality time with DD, so that you feel less guilty about during the week?
  
• Any friends who would have DS for the odd hour?
  
• Would the playpen for DS work?
  
• Does DD go to nursery?
  

Some brilliant advice from other posters above, I hope things get better soon.

[dribbleface]

I've been there too. One thing that really helped was me and Ds1 had mummy and DS1 time at the weekend (which was something simple like breakfast at sainsburys/ride on a train to nannys and back). It made a huge difference to how I felt, Ds1 still loves mummy and Ds1 time. Ds2 has turned into the devil a lively toddler and I am at my wits end with him, mummy and Ds1 time is a break for us both!

[meditrina]

Your postreally struck a chord with me.

With the benefit of hindsight, the things I should have done were:

a) honour every day, even if only for a short (and frustrating) walk.
b) talk to HV and see if you can get any Homestart (?) help (can't remember if that's the name, nor do I know the eligibility criteria), but if you can find someone reliable to occupy the DCs (alternating?) thenyou can give your attention to the other.
c) consider seeing the GP in case the toll on you is tipping you into depression.
d) try to park them both at GPs for the day; get your hair cut or a manicure, or a massage, or something else that makes you feel good; then have a nap yourself.
e) sod the housework; perhaps get a cleaner?

[Tertius]

It will get easier - my dd is 17 months and suddenly able to play alongside my son (nearly 4) rather than ruining his games. I can see she will get better and better for him and cause me less stress and heart break.

I feel like you too a lot but it is starting to get easier. Honestly!!! One month makes a big difference.

[harrietspy]

I don't want to read and run - just wanted to say I remember this so vividly. It's incredibly difficult. There's some great advice on this thread.

All I can add is this: don't make it harder for yourself by thinking you're crap. You're not.

[RainyAfternoon]

Oh dear, poor you. I think you have an unlucky combination of really tricky ages in the middle of winter when the weather doesn't make you want to go out much, but really I think it's worth trying to get out for walks etc as it's just less for you to clear up at the end of the day.

It honestly does get better. But it's hard when you are in the middle of a demanding period, and it would be great if you could make yourself some headspace. Can you get up 15min earlier than the children for a quiet cup of tea? Or can you make a part of your home a haven? I try and keep my bedroom uncluttered and have some flowers there as the rest of the house is a tip and I struggle to keep on top of it. It helps me calm down at the end of the day, and is also a bolthole for 5 mins peace when I feel overwhelmed.

I also use music as much as I can. Songs to sing in the bath, car etc. calmng music for bedtime. Fun music for dancing in the kitchen when tempers are frayed. Is that cheatng? I dont know, but it really helps change moods.

Good luck, and really try to look after yourself.

[MissBetseyTrotwood]

If a cleaner each week is not a goer financially, some companies do once a fortnight or once a month? I'm not saying don't clean in between but it would give you a bit of a break.

I confess (and I don't know why I feel guilty about it but I do) that we had a cleaner from the week before DC2 was born and it was brilliant. She is, effectively, the same cost as a nicer holiday each year but I'd take her over a trip somewhere hot every time. She's more like a friend of the family now too and the DCs love her. So it'll be Norfolk or the Isle of Wight (both lovely anyway) and the cleaner for a good few years to come. Or until we win the lottery anyway.

[abouttohaveameltdown]

Thanks so much to everyone for taking the time to reply, almost crying again at your kindness and great suggestions that I hadn't thought of. Going to try to have a bath now and go to bed, I feel a lot better knowing I'm not alone.xx