To think that it wouldn't be too difficult or costly to teach basic sign language in schools?

[Theicingontop]

Not expecting a five year old to sit and learn the entire BSL, but I think it would be nice if children were taught the basics. Maybe they do in some schools, but none I've ever heard of. Why do you think that is? Am I being unreasonable in thinking that it wouldn't be that difficult to do?

[saintlyjimjams]

Makaton isn't a language & isn't used by people who are deaf. It sign to support spoken language (in BSL for example the word order is different).

But I think BSL would be a fab GCSE option, (or perhaps some opportunity to study for the qualifications already available for BSL).

[saintlyjimjams]

Having said that my knowledge of Makaton has helped me communicate with a deaf friend who signs.

[Piemother]

Why?

[TheNebulousBoojum]

'everybody ought to be taught it from birth.'

So, a parental responsibility? All people to learn both languages?
Sounds like a plan to me, but how many parents would say that they are far too busy to learn it themselves or to teach their children?
It would be dumped on schools in the same way that other areas that used to be expected of parents are.
Boarding school from birth is the only way to go, then the children would be guaranteed to have breakfast, an all-round education including exercise, citizenship and BSL lessons and a reasonable bed time. Easier all round really/

[TheNebulousBoojum]

Makaton isn't a language, but it is effective communication that would apply to a far wider audience than just the hearing-impaired. I learned it because of a non-verbal child with Downs I had in class, and I found several other uses for it, including teaching the class the basics to communicate without a common language.

[ReallyTired]

Makaton and BSL serve two different purposes. BSL is a full blooded language with jokes, poetry, its own (next to impossible) grammar and culture. Makaton is designed to facilite communication with people who have severe learning difficulties. Makaton takes most of its signs from BSL.

I think you have to think what you hope to achieve by including BSL in the national curriculum. Personally I would like to see it as an option at GCSE level and taught properly. I think that many mumsnetters would have a real shock at quite how difficult BSL is.

"When you think of how many people lose their hearing in old age, if they - and the sales assistants, HCPs, family members, etc with whom they will be interacting - could already sign, wouldn't life be so much easier. "

Sad to say, I think people lose their BSL knowledge very quickly. I would be surprised if a child who has been taught BSL would remember any of it in their 70s. Most people who lose their hearing in old age find it easier if the sales assistant writes it down.

[MammaTJ]

They learn Somerset Total Communication in the local schools. It is for people with communication problems as well as deaf people. It is sign langauage and pictures.

I did a short level one course in it and really enjoyed it.

[MuddlingMackem]

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 12-Jan-13 18:09:37

So, a parental responsibility? All people to learn both languages?
Sounds like a plan to me, but how many parents would say that they are far too busy to learn it themselves or to teach their children?

[TheNebulousBoojum]

I think as a GCSE option, it sounds a fantastic idea. I think wedging BSL into the primary curriculum is not.

[Theicingontop]

Maybe the main use for most would be ordering drinks in noisy bars and clubs.

Or to have a nice sweary argument in front of an oblivious two year old.

[MuddlingMackem]

Theicingontop Sat 12-Jan-13 18:23:53

Or to have a nice sweary argument in front of an oblivious two year old.

[mrsjay]

my dds got the basics in primary school and also makaton well dd2 as a child in her class used it, not sure it a skill all children would need or use interesting thought though,

[Loquace]

Or to have a nice sweary argument in front of an oblivious two year old

Or for a couple of ten year olds to have a nice sweary argument and plot norty things in front of oblivious parents.

[hermioneweasley]

I did a BSL course and have NEVER used it. I would however use any of the modern European languages weekly if not daily if I could speak any.

If you can speak English and Spanish you can speak to 70% of the world (apparently)

[mrsjay]

Oh a comedian whos name I forgot he is australian and did the last leg when the paralympics were on anyway he has an interpreter at his gigs 1 was on e4 a few months ago and they did some swearing just to piss the signer off was very funny

[BackforGood]

Adam Hills - it was brill, wasn't it

[OddBoots]

mrsjay That was Adam Hills and that show had me absolutely howling with laughter - especially the deaf gay strippers!

[mrsjay]

ADMA HILLS thank you , you know when you just get a block on a name was driving me daft, I was going to google australian comedian with 1 foot

yes his stage show was hilarious

[DamnBamboo]

BSL ought to be a joint official language of the country with English and everybody ought to be taught it from birth

Really? Given that the vast majority of the population can communicate quite effectively without it?

[UniS]

Deaf awareness in primary school, yes. I think that would be possible and helpful for lots of children giving a bit more awareness for how they talk with older hearing impaired adults and hearing aid using children managing to cope in mainstream. Finger spelling included.

BSL in primary - It would be nice but costly to do it well and if there is no BSL using community I fear most would be forgotten rapidly.

BSL as a GCSE level qualification- now that's an interesting idea and one I think MIGHT be feasible in some schools. IF a BSL qualified teacher can be found with the availability and right other qualifications to teach school age children.

I learnt BSL as an adult, went as far as stage 2, used BSL socially for a few years, then moved and changed my social circle. I now remember very little BSL, but have reasonable deaf awareness.

[ReallyTired]

"Maybe the main use for most would be ordering drinks in noisy bars and clubs.

Or to have a nice sweary argument in front of an oblivious two year old."

Trust me, its VERY easy to pick up swear words in BSL. I worked with teenage Deaf chldren and frankly their signing belonged in the gutter. Swearing is the easy part of BSL to understand.

Teaching deaf awareness is very different to learning BSL. My FIL is profoundly deaf because he has been deafened. His needs are very different to someone who has been deaf since birth or someone who is a bit hard of hearing. I feel its important to realise that the word deaf can cover almost any level of hearing loss. Prehaps deaf awareness can be fitted into PHSCE as part of overall disablity awareness.

[GailTheGoldfish]

Considering there are only an estimated 70,000 ( there's no definitive number) BSL users in the UK I think that BSL as a GCSE option in all schools couldn't be justified, however it might be useful in areas where there is a big Deaf community and/or schools with Deaf students. Even then though as a GCSE it would only really be of use if someone wanted a career working with BSL users, wouldn't it?

[DamnBamboo]

I agree Gail

[ReallyTired]

Some schools offer GCSE latin and there are ZERO latin speakers.

Similar arguements were used against teaching children welsh and galic in the past. These languages have been kept alive because children have been taught.

The reason for offering BSL in school is to increase people's knowledge of BSL so it does not die out as a language. Cochelar implants are threatening the existance of BSL. Unless BSL is offered to hearing children it will not exist in one hundred years time.

Actually there are plenty of careers where a knowledge of BSL can be benefical.

[DamnBamboo]

Are they really? I didn't know that.

I suppose some things so become obsolete with technological advances don't they?

If BSL dying out because technology is superseding it, all the more reason not to teach it across schools IMO