To not be coping. rant alert and long alert

[chunkydory]

I am not expecting much sympathy for my complaint but I just need to offload. I'm really struggling to bring up my two toddlers. They are 18 months apart and were/are my dream come true but it's so fucking hard.
When I have read others saying similar things about struggling with little ones the general consensus seems to be 'well my gran had 28 kids and she never complained' or 'they are only little for a short while, you'll miss this as they get older'. Well atm I just can't wait to get this stage over with.
I adore them and of course I love them with all my heart but why are they so unreasonable (i know why, it's because they are toddlers).
I had two close together because of health issues, basically the advice was: 'it's now or never". A family is everything I ever dreamed of but I just didn?t expect it to be this hard. Sometimes I just want to scream or run away.
It doesn?t help that I have severe PND; I was also blessed with extreme SPD from which I haven?t recovered so every day is a mental and physical struggle. My own mum is an NPD riddled fire breathing violent and abusive woman and my siblings and I have all been affected in different ways, the upshot being that I don't have any family support. My DH has little or no family to speak of; subsequently we have 'managed' everything on our own. My DH is the most supportive man I could ever hope to meet but honestly I am bringing him down with my inability to manage and he really can?t understand why I find the kids so hard.
They are not the same around him though, they are obviously picking something up from my mood, when they see me they become desperate cling ons, both wanting cuddles, carrying and not wanting to share me with the other. The youngest is always shrieking and screaming if I put him down for a minute and always pushed the eldest off my lap or pulling her hair, They are always fighting and snatching off each other so I cant even leave the room for a fucking minute. To help me to feel better I paid a substantial sum to have a colour and style consultation but most days I look like someone who doesn?t give a shit about themselves. Even when I do dress nicely and put on makeup (rare) they wreck my hair & wipe crap all over my clothes.
My husband often takes the kids off me when he?s home to give me 'me time' which I love but the feeling doesn?t last as I when i return they always revert to screaming shrieking chaos.
i am not coping with anything, the GP just keeps recommending different anti Ds. i have had counselling and am 'having' CBT. i've been reassured by professionals that everything is normal, the kids, my responses but if it's normal why is it so fucking shit? why don't any other mothers i know feel the same way? All the other women i meet seem serene with beatific smiles and when i broach the subject of struggling people look really shocked , those with two or more say things like 'oh it's no different having one more to look after' 'bring it on' and that sort of thing. Most people seem to find it good fun which makes me hate myself even more.
I feel guilty about feeling this way, i find it hard to give my kids constant stimulation when i try to read to them it always ends in massive rivalry, fighting, pulling hair etc as they both either want me or the book to themselves. I can't give them one to one attention at the same time as the little on always wants what the other one has and leaving them alone to 'learn through play' but it doesn't last long because they always end up in a snatching incident.
the worst thing of all is that they have both given up on daytime naps so not only are they up all day marauding and tormenting but they are also knackered and volatile. I take them out to groups and park etc but geting out of the house is a fucking nightmare. In toddler groups the eldest is always unhappy unless she's on my lap and the same at the park, she wants to be with me all the time which makes it hard for the little one to get any enjoyment from the day. I don't work as it didn't work out well with nursery fees and every day is a non stop slog.

I'm aware that i sound like an ungrateful useless bitch, i have tried to do all the positive stuff like counting my blessings, all the counselling, drugs, CBT etc. but nothing is making any difference. why aren't i doing it better?

[BarredfromhavingStella]

It is hard work having two small people & you are not failing, please try to remember that what you see of other people is only half the story & they are more than likely to be having the same struggles as you.

I'm certain you're doing a great job.

[iwantanafternoonnap]

chunky I say well done for having the energy to even get on mumsnet

I have one 3 year old and that is hard enough. I find it sole destroying most of the time as I am forever making threats, shouting and on some days shutting myself in my bedroom. I go to work in a busy city A and E for a break at least I get to drink a cuppa while it is hot and whiel reading some trashy magazine!

It is hard work and you are not rubbish or failing. There are certain anti-d's that are very good for helping with hormone related nuttyness. I have found citalopram extremely helpful and has reduced my complete once monthly meltdowns a lot. I had PND and PTSD after my DS which took me a while to accept and I have learnt to ignore the shocked looks about it.

You are doing okay and they aren't dead yet. Mine starts nursery 9th Jan and I have been waiting for that for the past 2 years so I can get some time to myself. I clock watch until bedtime too some (most) days. Your normal, those ones floating around serenely are probably on high doses of Valium and have bottles of vodka in their bag

My DS is fast asleep next to me and I know I should wake him up to feed him but I am enjoying the peace.

Keep going their is light at the end of the tunnel...well that is what I keep telling myself.

[Procrastinating]

I had my first two 18 months apart and I sometimes wonder how I survived it.

Most of those women who look serene are lying. A woman I met in the park once said her two were "an absolute joy" (they may have been but she was overegging it) and I felt it was my fault for not coping for a long time. A bit of camaradarie and laughing in the face of all the horror would have helped me a lot - I never found it.

I felt as angry as you clearly do. I used to break things regularly, once threw a pan of beans at the window. But things will change, your eldest will stop clinging, it will get better. In lots of ways you are not in control so you just have to ride it out.
You do need survival strategies though, yes 5 minute break alone, wangle it any way you can and look forward to it. I used to tire mine out in the park (stressful but necessary), then home and lunch, then I would switch on Cbeebies and leave the room to drink tea on my own. From the moment I woke up I would look forward to that bit of the day and make it lovely for myself (a tidy room, flowers, treats etc).

My eldest are 7 and 6 now and it is 90% wonderful, I feel back together and myself. By the sounds of I didn't cope any better than you are, but now I think I did a great job.
It will pass and your perspective will change a huge amount OP, be kind to yourself.

[hanikam]

It really is hard when they are so little. The inevitable sleep deprivation makes everything so much worse. Like you, we did it all by ourselves. the GP was no help whatsoever regarding lack of sleep. I was averaging 2hrs per night after baby number 3, then having to drive the eldest to school feeling like the walking dead! I went to the gp cos I was so worried about the safety issues. She was no help at all.

The best, best, best advice ever was from a friend who advised me to hire a cleaner! It was the most fantastic thing I ever did. She came once, sometimes twice a week, changed all the beds, did the ironing, gave the house a thorough going over. It was bliss!

Forget that shit about doing it all, it's impossible. When Mandy was cleaning my house, it took such a weight off my mind. If you can hire a cleaner, do it!

hugs

[CockyPants]

Hello, OP
You sound entirely normal to me! I am lucky enough to have only one child, a supportive DP and a fantastic DM.
And I STILL found it hard. DD was appalling eater, and would regularly breast refuse, she was EBF, and wouldn't take EM out of a bottle either....
I spent most of DD first 3 years in a pit of despair because of this.
All I can say is the shitty phase does pass, and once your DC start school it will relieve some of the pressure, you will have some time to yourself, and hopefully begin to feel more normal and like your old self again. Lots of mums lie about how great it is being a mum. Yes, it can be wonderful, but it is relentless, emotionally and physically draining, and Groundhog Day like. And most days I feel exhausted and battle scarred!
Good luck OP, it will get better, slowly but surely. HUG.

[LiegeAndLief]

lullaby

I'm posting this link because when I did it once before someone said that she couldn't believe other people thought these things too, she had never told anyone as people would think she was mad. It's probably not quite the stage you're in at the moment but he principle is the same. Those other mothers are not serene all the time. Or if they are, I have never met any.

You sound like you have had an awful lot of crap to deal with. Mine weren't so close together so I'm not going to pretend I know exactly what it's like but I can guarantee there are plenty of other people feeling like you. And I'm sure you are doing a brilliant job. I hope it gets easier soon.

[joanofarchitrave]

Keep expressing what you feel until someone responds. If there really are parents finding it easy out there, then I bet they have serious family support, have had the children who are easy as toddlers (they do exist), or are afraid that if they stop smiling in public, their heads will fall off.

[MrsLyman]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but just wanted to say I feel the same, DS1 is 20 months, DS2 3 months, currently feel like everyday is a battle and everyday I loose. I have no sage advice just hugs and

[Wheresmypopcorn]

People who smile a lot do for one reason: they have lots of help

[Emandlu]

I had PND after my first child. Not so much after my 2nd, but anyhow. My kids are now nearly 13 & 10.

It does get better!

I hated the first few years of their lives. So much so that with my first i have very few memories of that time. It's like I have blocked it out.

Now though we do interesting stuff together and have a great time, it's not all a bed of roses, but it's certainly got better the older the kids have got.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Hello OP.

It is bloody hard when they are little and I for one wouldn't want the toddler days back. A very wise woman once told me that kids don't come with instruction manuals. It always seems like somebody else is doing better, but you don't know how they are feeling really.
FWIW you are a good mum and love your kids.
I am so sorry you are going through this and can remember your feelings myself.
It does and will get better, I know little consolation for now, but all I can say to you.
Sending you a big hug.

[chunkydory]

Thanks guys some lovely messages on here. I don't have time now to reply to all I just want to acknowledge everybody and to say that the 'lullaby' link had me in tears. A must watch for you all no matter what stage of child rearing you're in.

[addictedismoving]

WARNING CONTAINS BAD LANGUAGE

[GrrrArghZzzzYaayforall8nights]

OP, your support network seems to be low. If you are comfortable, you could give us your general location and we may be able to find support groups or similar that could be of help to you.

It IS hard work, having help and support is essential for me to cope.

[chunkydory]

Thanks guys some lovely messages on here. I don't have time now to reply to all I just want to acknowledge everybody and to say that the 'lullaby' link had me in tears. A must watch for you all no matter what stage of child rearing you're in.

[chunkydory]

Apols for repeat posts. Mrslyman hugs and wine to you too, it's a shitty place to be, it feels like a huge rip off when everything is going the way I planned with regards to having a family. I keep beating myself up with 'be careful what you wish for'!
Definite yes to the poster suggesting that my support network is low, it's truly non existent except for dh. Even when we ask people outright we get excuses or stalling so have just stopped asking. I have researched local support until I'm blue in the face. The only group thing I found I couldn't access because of dh' s work and they didn't have a crèche. I have found support in nearby towns but transport is an issue I can't drive because of my high anxiety (that's not a thread about a thread btw!) and again I just don't know how I'd fit it in with dh's shifts.

[PhoebeLaura]

Sorry to hear you are struggling OP. Toddlers are a friggin nightmare most of the time and that's even without no support/poor mental and physical help so please don't think you are alone in the struggle.

Re your SPD, I had severe SPD with both my first 2 pregnancies, ended up on crutches with the second despite physio. I am now pregnant with DC3 (I know - bonkers) and had terrible SPD from 6 weeks. At 16 weeks it was horrific and I was going to go and get crutches but decided to check MN for advice and went to see an osteopath instead. I was very cynical but the results have been incredible. Within a couple of sessions I went from being barely able to walk downstairs to being almost pain free. I am now 26 weeks and barely a twinge. I just wanted to let you know that there is help available. I'm not sure where you are but I go to the expectant mothers clinic at the British school of osteopathy in London which has a low fee. Possibly worth a look at treatment as I know my 2 and 4 year old were much more hard to handle when I was suffering with the SPD...

Good luck with everything and hang on in there.

[FrostyWindMadeMoan]

I feel for you. You are not alone and you are not a bad mum. I went through something similar when my first DD was a baby. Now I am out the other side. You will come through it too.

I have to disagree slightly about the impressions we get of how other mothers cope. I don't think it is fair to say most women who say they are coping are lying. When I had my second DD things were much easier; more help, better medication etc. I did feel more than once that I was judged for being happy just as I felt judged for being unhappy and struggling first time around. Everybody is different and parenting in different circumstances. I think we should allow other mothers to be happy too without being suspicious. I remember feeling angry that other women were apparently pretending to cope. But,maybe they really were coping. However, there shouldn't be any moral value attached to coping/ not coping. Most of it is entirely out of your control. How much money you have, the hours your DP works,proximity of family, your hormones,your baby's temperament. My DD1 was born grouchy and needing little sleep. DD2 the opposite. You can't blame yourself for things like that.

Some people struggle and it's not their fault. Some people don't struggle,but that doesn't make them smug,in denial Stepford Wives. But,it passes and you have a lot of sympathy on here. Keep on surviving.

[edwinbear]

I have a 3.5 year old and a 13 month old so a much easier age gap than yours, but I swear, today, when the baby was throwing toys out of the toy box faster than i could put them back in, whilst needing a nappy change I knew would result in the temper tantrum from hell, whilst the 3.5 year old was busy riding a tricycle, connected to a toy pushchair, with a toy guitar balanced on top, banging into my newly painted walls, demanding chocolate, all to the background music of 'Sticky Buns, Sticky Buns' played loudly over the thoughtful Xmas present of a kids CD player, when what I really needed to do was clear up from breakfast (chucked on the floor by the baby), empty the dishwasher, put some laundry on and hahahahaha have a shower......I could have walked out, I really could.

[Buchanquine]

I don't have much to add that other people haven't already said, just a couple of things you mentioned really struck a chord with me. I have a 3 yr old and a 7 month old and developed depression shortly after the birth of my 2nd. The hardest things for me were the realisation that my husband didn't understand. He wanted to but he didn't and so he couldn't help, which made things worse. And being told to count my blessings! To which the only reasonable response is I can't - if I could I probably wouldn't be depressed!
What did help was CBT - it's not the easiest and I find it more of a long term slow improvement rather than a short-term help when things aren't going right. But being able to talk to someone who doesn't judge and who doesn't get upset that I'm not constantly happy to be spending all day dealing with two small children really helped lift the I'm a bad mother not to be enjoying this experience thoughts.
If you can get to thinking it is what it is and take any help that's offered it might get a bit easier. And don't underestimate the impact depression has on your ability to enjoy things - it isn't you.

[calmlychaotic]

I totally sympathise, my ds is 2 and I have Sat on the floor in tears because he won't do anything I want him to. and I'm a childminder! its true they behave worse for their parents though. can you attend anything at your local children's centre, maybe make some friends with similar age children and build a bit of a support network. I recently did a 6 week toddler signing course kids liked it and I made friends too. it can be hard getting out but we manage by getting out the house everyday, bag packed night before. home for lunch hopefully nap or just relax with books and tv. and do activity in afternoon. sticking to the routine really helps and the kids behave better. I plan meals too. toddlers really are hard work, please get help where you can, a cleaner is a brilliant idea, and not that expensive, or as someone else suggested a babysitter in the daytime. a couple of hours break now and again really helps.

[yousmell]

I had PND and three kids. It will all get easier I promise. Toddlers are hard going at the best of times but here are my suggestions ...

They do pick up on your moods and so try make things fun. Make jobs into a silly games.

Organise everything the night before. Clothes/snacks/nappy bag etc.

If they really want to be on you/held even at playgroups/home . Then roll with it and let them. Give more attention

Teach your toddler to take turns. Use the word 'turn' constantly and they will catch on eventually.

Use a timer. They can have x toy when the alarm goes off.

Buy yourself a book called toddler taming. Attend a parenting class.

If you really hit braking point, stick them in their cots and go have a cup of tea and calm down for 5 mins.

[chunkydory]

Yousmell. What brilliant tips thank you I will try all of them. I Love the turns and alarm ideas, both new to me.
Theoxen: benign neglect has been my latest attempt at managing, maybe I shouldn't feel so guilty about it. I had no positive role models growing up and with no support now everything I know and try is from a book or online. A couple of posters have mentioned parenting classes I will give it some thought. I have no motivation at the moment but my op was a real cry for help yesterday, I have been so reassured by reading your replies, if only I could meet people like this irl. I have tried to make friends with similar age children but I just don't fit anywhere. I am friendly and chatty, genuinely interested in others and nothing ever moves from the starting block. This has been a constant throughout my life even as a child. Honestly, I posted on the mn local boards, every newcomer was acknowledged except for me. There was a woman posting looking for friends in my area, children same age as mine. I replied a short cheery message and she never replied. I feel like a pariah. I am so scared of my children being affected by this and of them not fitting in. Both dh and I had unhappy and lonely childhoods.
Iwantanfternoonnap: did you have any weight gain or other negative side effects from citalopram? I'd love to find something to balance my moods but without the side effects.

[MistyB]

Be easier on yourself and let your standards drop. You don't have to be a poster perfect, you need to keep them alive, feed them and love them, but you don't have to feel loving to them every moment of every day!! You don't need to control their behaviour so worry less about their boundaries. My sister uses a set of questions, which ask why do I want them to do X or not do X, what will happen if they do? If they would be in real danger, then you need to prevent them from doing it and explain why. You will find fewer occasions where you need to discipline. Books like How to talk so your kids will listen and unconditional parenting can help once you get past the bits that won't work for you. Playing go wild, who can scream the loudest, make the grumpiest face, grumpy faces no laughing, dancing and shouting in fun can be hugely stress busting!

I also find Bach Flower Remedies hugely useful. Holly for bickering siblings and Impatiens for me, among others. There are remedies for worrying circular thoughts, this book is small and easy to use. I mix a dropper full of three or four remedies plus water in another dropper bottle and take them first thing in the morning and then 'as required'!! I use them for weeks at a time, then stop for a bit and tweak based on my mood. They might be useful alongside your AD's if you feel your AD's are not quite giving you what you need.

I also find running away from my problems fantastic!! Exercise especially outside, either on your own or with a buddy. Pounding out my frustrations on the road helps keep me sane. I have found other Mums to run with through chatting, advertising on boards for a jogging buddy and when I started, found a beginner runner to run with.

Remember that many many women feel like this but it doesn't need to control you, you can control it!!

[MistyB]

Oops, just realised that running suggestion is hugely inappropriate as you have explained your SPD!! Perhaps an osteopath might be worth a try. I hate it when professionals discharge you because you 'should be better by now'!!