to wonder how employees get away with paying their staff under £15k?

[KenAdams]

I've just been looking at jobs and I'm shocked at how many pay under £15k!

Surely that's not enough to buy a house in most areas of the country or afford rent on an average family house as well as food, bills, nursery fees etc?

I live in a relatively cheap area and full time nursery fees alone are around £800. How can people be expected to afford that on low wages? It's no wonder that some people really are better off on benefits, which is really sad.

I don't know how low your income has to be to get help from the government but surely there needs to be a big rise in minimum wage in order to meet living costs now?

[youngermother1]

My earlier example was hypothetical rather than actual. My point was, what if the competition in Chinese - no change in the UK law impacts them, all it does is force me to close my business and no jobs for UK people - more benefits bills etc

[Darkesteyes]

youngermother1 when people cant afford to buy your product please try to remember that it is very likely because their employers are doing the same as you.

[youngermother1]

Many people fail to understand basic economics. As a rich country you have two choices.

1. Close the borders to imports/have high import duties. This supports UK industry and employment but reduces choices and raises costs
   
2. allow global imports - much choice and low cost but low skilled jobs get exported to other countries.
   

How many of you have items made in China - each of those has forced down UK wages/lost jobs in the UK to overseas. You bought it because it was cheap and allowed you to afford more but this leads directly to lower paid/lost UK jobs.
Immigration only replaces the UK specific jobs (mainly nursing, agriculture and service jobs) - but again reduces the price of this to us.
Lots of people complain about the cost of childcare - how many rich childcare employees/childminders are there? Pay the more and childcare costs increase.

[badgeroncaffeine]

Everything to do with immigrants (and other factors), but this country's decision to abandon the industries it had and depend on the financial sector didn't help.

But to say the mass immigration has nothing to do with it is utterly absurd. They will work for less and can work for less, en masse...it forces wages down...quite obviously.

[youngermother1]

nothing to do with immigrants - the UK is not an island in the employment world. large numbers of unskilled industries (steel, casting and forging, clothes etc) are out sourced - there is no need to bring in immigrants.
Also the 'ruling classes' do not have a choice. M&S were forced to go overseas for cheaper clothes as shoppers deserted them.
Th e honest answer is that the buyer is king - if the whole country only brought products from UK based companies that paid 30% tax and paid employees above minimum wage, that is the only companies that would survive and you would all be happy. - bankrupt, but happy

[badgeroncaffeine]

It's amazing how few people understand this very basic principle.

Under capitalism, people are a commodity, like sugar, paper or anything else.

If the ruling classes can create a surplus of people looking for work, their value as a commodity falls. This is why so many immigrants have been allowed in...they knew what they were doing!

[youngermother1]

Poverty in the UK is defined as two thirds average income - around £18k for a couple. Therefore £15k is defined as poverty.
Ironically, by this definition, the recession has reduced poverty in the UK as average income has fallen but benefits have not, so more people on above two thirds.
This was Gordon b's big scam - reduce poverty by increasing benefits to just above the relevant point.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

People live in poverty in the UK regardless of benefits.

[JackThePumpkinKing]

?

Really?

[milkysmum]

My husband has been earning around £12,000 a year for past 3 years- in the building trade which has obviously taken a hit recently- he works 40+ hours a week for this in all weathers and its knackering! we have now made the decision that it will make more sense for him to give up work for now and stay at home with the children (aged1 and 3) rather than paying out for childcare we can barley afford

[youngermother1]

Actually global figures are important as jobs can easily be exported nowadays

[JackThePumpkinKing]

Which is why min wage needs an increase.

[EdgarAllanPond]

they aren't 'getting away with it'

paying £15k or less is what you do for jobs where you can attract an appropriate candidate for £15k or less.

that is all.

[JackThePumpkinKing]

Yes, global figures are irrelevant in this instance.

Agree about rents being boosted by increased housing benefits. Well, actually it's the lack of council housing that's really the problem. If there was enough council housing, then the government wouldn't be subsidising the ever increasing landlord rates, and perhaps house prices/rental demand wouldn't have increased to such a crazy level.

So, to sum up. I blame Thatcher.

[BridgetJonesPants]

My DP works 37 hrs p/w and his salary is only around £13k. I work p/t and mine is around £5k. We have one dd and get tax credits which obviously helps us.

We're lucky in that our mortgage is paid off and we have a good amount of savings behind us should we ever need them (we're both in our late 40's, have previously had well paid jobs, no debt and are generally good with our money).

However, if we had to pay a mortgage/rent, it would definitely be a struggle. Obviously we would manage if we had to, but I don't suppose it's much fun having to watch every penny or worrying how you'll manage till pay day.

I'm not sure what will happen to us when Universal credits come into force, maybe we'll no longer quality for tax credits because we have savings. Although I guess the otherside to that argument is why should we need tax credits when we have savings?

[TalkinPeace2]

"globally" is an utterly irrelevant figure - all those involved with economic development know that "Purchasing Power Parity " is king

BP300
the problem with MN is that the posters think they are the demographic, but they are not because if they were then private school threads would die on the vine as such a low proportion of posters contributed

[bp300]

Globally £15,000 is a very high wage. The problem is that the governments have increased the cost of living by manipulating markets. If interest rates weren't slashed to 0.5% houses would have fallen to an affordable lever. Rents have been inflated by the government paying large housing benefits. Governments printing money is causing increases in the prices of imported food and fuel.

[boaty]

There are a lot of ahem older people whose children have grown up who still live on these level wages. I spent years as a SAHM not through choice but out of necessity, we lived in an isolated area, childcare was non-existant, few local jobs, no transport, DH earned a bottom level wage.(pre minimum wage) We had to choose between food and heating frequently.
We managed to move into a town then I ended up taking on the role of full time carer for my elderly grandparents, granmother with dementia, until they passed away.
At the same time DHs health began to fail!
I managed to get a 'entry level' job and am now in my mid early 40s still on the 'entry level' job, pushing for advancement, but guess what, I'm competing against people a lot younger than me!
For those who say you shouldn't have children unless you earn a good wage, are they a rich persons luxury? We also need bottom level workers in the next generation.
My DC all are working now and paying into the system and all have a strong work ethic. DS2 is a graduate earning MW now. Hopefully he will get off the bottom but the bar is higher now, he applied for a graduate trainee position, but they wanted x number of years exprience!
Not everyone on 'entry level' jobs will be able to progress. Walk round the supermarket, DIY store, look at the staff, see the age range. In fact I know only a handful of people who earn above these kind of wages...
For a lot of us the minimum wage IS the national average!

[TalkinPeace2]

50% of the working population earn less than £18,000
YANBU to be surprised

YABU to have not known already that wages disparity in the UK is offensive and propped up by Tax Credits.
And even the Economist is now in favour of Minimum wages

[Scrazy]

'No it's fine' not 'not it's fine'

[Scrazy]

Solid, read my 2nd to last post. I will also add that I have had a couple of periods of claiming income support when I was made redundant over the years I was a single parent.

[Scrazy]

Jack, not it's fine.

It's just that someone further down named me as being someone who cannot see why people need food banks. I can, but it's not something that should be happening amongst families without other problems.

I'm well aware of the plight of the jobless and low paid being one of them myself.

[SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR]

Scrazy: what about fuel bills and travel costs? TV license? Basic internet/phone package (it is almost impossible to function without some form of communication; it costs more to do lots of things via post and if you don't have a phone it will cost you a minimum of 60p to call someone from a phonebox.)

Mostly, the poor struggle because they are in debt. When you are poor, you get into debt because you have nothing to set against emergencies, whether that's the cooker packing up, the kids wrecking their winter coats and needing new ones, or getting stranded somewhere with the only option being to pay for a taxi. ANd the only people who will lend to the poor are the ones that charge a minimum of 400% interest.