To think recovery from a csection is not necessarily harder than from a vb?

[Cathycomehome]

Have had both. Second ELCS because of secondary tokophobia. I have a friend who is militant about home birth/natural childbirth. She states on her facebook pages"Recovery from section is painful, hard and unpleasant."

Not in my case.

I would have no issue if she'd said "can be", like I might say, "recovery from vb CAN BE painful, hard and undignified".

She also said to my face that "women like me" cause fear and put people off natural childbirth.

[Ghostsgowoooh]

I've had two vaginal and two c sections births. Not sure if you are being unreasonable or not. It took me a long time to recover from my ds birth, vaginal but I tore very badly and mentally took ages to get over the whole experience.

Second labour easy, dd1 came out with ease and I was up and about the day after.

I had an emergency section with dd3. I was very ill afterwards, I lost lots of blood, my scar burst and bled for six weeks afterwards and I had an emergency blood transfusion about a week after the birth. It took me months to get over it all. I also ended up with a damaged bladder too

I then had a planned section with dd3. It was a doddle compared to my previous section actually but the recovery time was shorter and much more straightforward.

The problem is with sections is that the physical recovery time is longer than a v birth. You can't lift your baby. It is surgery so you are limited in movements. You are bed bound for a hours afterwards. You have more risk of infection and more at risk of complications too.

[MerryMarigold]

I know it's not a competition, but sometimes half of the competition is inside us without anyone even saying anything. Things like the OP's friend's FB status just make it much, much worse.

[RedToothbrush]

She also said to my face that "women like me" cause fear and put people off natural childbirth.

And where does she get this enlightened information from? Which study into fear of childbirth would she like to quote here? What evidence does she have to support her claim? I ask because despite the fact I have been following the subject for a number of years and have heard many a person say this, I've never once found any evidence to actually support this opinion.

What I have seen are studies exploring tokophobia which seem to support a pattern; women with primary tokophobia and women with secondary tokophobia have slightly different patterns as collective groups, but there are clear patterns in terms of their health and experiences.

If it was the case that other women were influenced by other women, then surely there would be these patterns as it would be across the board?

What she is in essence saying is that despite the fact that women who have had traumatic birth previously are more likely to request a CS than when who had a straightforward uncomplicated birth but the reason they do is because other women have put them off natural childbirth. They were incapable of making that decision themselves or drawing on their own first hand experience.

And she is saying that women who have never had a baby before are put off natural childbirth by other women; its not the case that other experiences in life are likely to have affected how they feel about childbirth. Can she explain why they more likely to have experienced sexual abuse, been raped or have a history of mental health issues such as anxiety and depression? Or is this just some odd and strange coincidence?

Instead we have been fed this ideological lie by the pro-natural birth lobby that women are asking for ELCS because of a cultural preference and because we are influenced by the media and other women. We are told to ignore the fact that perhaps these women have been advised by a doctor that, given their feelings and extent to which it is affecting their life and mental wellbeing, that perhaps it would be in their best interests to ELCS, even if they did manage a VB first time round. We are told that they would be empowered by having a successful VB without intervention instead; except of course they can not guarantee how a planned VB will progress as birth is unpredictable however you give birth (this is also true of an ELCS however there are slightly more certainties with an ELCS even if it is a certain intervention).

Its an amazingly patronising and ignorant view to have. Your friend isn't a friend. She a judgmental bitch who is so absorbed by her own ideology that she hasn't a clue how damaging HER views might be to others in denting their self esteem, confidence and well being. Which is somewhat ironic.

Women are all different, and should be supportive of others who are going through what is perhaps the most risky and potentially traumatic event in their lives. We all have different coping strategies and there is no 'right' answer; just the best one for each individual. The people best placed to decide that are the woman themselves and the doctor who knows their full medical history in each case. Judgment and ideology has no place in the good practise of medicine.

Tell her, how ignorant, ironic and damaging her views are to a lot of women, then kick her firmly into touch. You don't need someone like this in your life telling you, you are wrong.

[MrsBovary]

I had a both a cs and a vb. I found recovery most limiting in the former; not being able to drive, not being able to lift heavy objects and so on. The scar can be painful, on occasion, in the first couple of days too, and moving around is slow progress initially, as you'd expect.


Odd thing for your friend to post on Facebook, though.

[TheCrackFox]

She sounds like a shit friend who you need to cut out of your life.

[Bellebois]

I had an elective section with my DD for various reasons, was made to feel a bit 'out there' at the NCT classes, but I ignored it. The is definitely strong feeling about the (various) birth process, that's for sure.
My birth was well planned, calm, painless (until the drugs wore off a few hours later!) I am not squeamish about needles though... Had my music on, DH chatting to the dr's etc... DD was gorgeous, the whole process was lovely really, all things considered.
The spinal block wore off a few hours later, it was a dull ache, yes, sore to walk. But I was up about about the next day and home on day 3. By day 5, I forgot to take any pain killers as is didn't need them. The boob thrush I got a few months later was a killer, by comparison....
I drove after a few weeks after being bounced between my insurers and GP and feeling fine. Twisting and turning was tricky for a while. Other than that, happy days.
But each to their own.... Your friend should not be so insensitive. Next she'll be saying your are not a real woman unless you have given birth vaginally... Crikey.

[Bellebois]

Redtoothbrush
Totally agree.

[rogersmellyonthetelly]

It can vary massively between women and between births.
I've had 2 vb, the first was a difficult presentation (ear first) and required a ventouse and lots of stitches. The stitches ulcerated and became infected, didn't heal well, I had a massive haematoma on one side of my fanjo too. I couldn't stand up or sit down comfortably for about 6 weeks, and still wasn't able to ride my horse without pain 6 months later.
My second was a 100% straightforward delivery with nothing more than a slight graze which I didn't even notice. I was back riding the horse a week after delivery. so for some vaginal deliveries, a elcs would quite possibly have been easier and less painful recovery, for others it would obv be a much more painful and harder recovery.

[MrsArchchancellorRidcully]

From comments on here it seems that an elective CS is much easier to recover from than an EMCS or crashCS, which I find common sense.

I had 2 sections - an EMCS after about 9 hrs of labour and a crash section after 4 days of labour (after labouring at home for 3 days, having planned a home VBAC). I found the crash section incredibly hard to recover from. 11m on my scar is still sore and my stomach muscles were cut through terribly and I have little feeling left.
My EMCS was hard but made easier when DD slept through at 5 days old and I got myself up and about after 12 hrs.
The crash, I ended up in high dependency for 24 hrs on a drip and heart monitor. Didn't properly hold DS for 48 hrs.

This all seems common sense to me, just as an easy VB in water with candles will be almost bliss compared with a hard assisted VB with tearing after days of latent labour.

I know someone who had an ELCS after a VB which, in her doctor's words, had such bad tearing it was as it she'd given herslef her own c section down there.

I am a big advocate of natural and home birth but there will always be women for whom it is safer and healthier (either physically or mentally) to have a section.
I am very glad we live in a country where these choices are available and your friend shouldn't apply her values to all women.

Having said all that, i still stand by the fact that a section is, as far as I know, the only major abdominal surgery where the patient has very little recovery time and is expected to get up and function normally plus look after a newborn within a few hours. Every other surgery allows recovery time. Says a lot for mothers' strength i think!

[Fourandstillcounting]

Redtoothbrush I'm a bit in love with you.


On threads about CS, which come up regularly, it never fails to amaze me how some women think that because THEY had a great experience one way or the other, then everyone else should make the same choice.

My SIL stunned me when she said "Sorry, Four, but I think everyone should try for a vaginally birth" knowing full well that I'd had 3 ELCS. But the same friend had managed to get to 9cm without even knowing and her delivery was so fast she didn't make it to the maternity department and gave birth in a cubicle in a&e. If everyone's birth was that trouble free, well perhaps we'd all make that choice. But cos it was great for her, then it should be great for everyone.

[treaclesoda]

My recoveries from two emcs were horrendous, to the extent that it finalised my decision to stop at two children.

But some people's recovery from vaginal birth is equally horrific, so I wouldn't dream of saying to someone else that my experience has been worse than hers. Who knows really? Its not a competition.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Surely the only goal in the end is to have the best outcome for mother and baby. Does it matter how that outcome is achieved? For some people the best outcome is from a totally intervention free birth and for others from an ELCS. The best outcome should take into account not just the physically health of mother and baby but the mental wellbeing of the mother too.

As others have said, its not a competition. Giving birth is challenging enough without other women piping up and telling you that you are "doing it wrong" because you have made different choices to them.

[IAmNotACaterpillar]

My friends and I between us have a variety of birth stories from the really fast no time for pain relief to emergency sections. All we care about is the fact that we have our children. We all recovered differently from all the different births anyway.

FWIW I had a terrible time with ds1 (13). I shouldnt have had a vaginal delivery due to a medical condition which was only diagnosed 3 years after his birth - despite my repeated visits to doctors before my pregnancy and my pleas for a c-section which were ignored. I bled for months and months and months afterwards. I am still in pain from that birth. What would your friend say about that??

By the time of my second pregnancy 6 years later (which was how long it took for me to be able to have sex again) I was armed with my diagnosis and secured a planned section. Very sadly my baby was stillborn ten days after this was agreed. Although emotionally I have never really recovered from his death, physically after the birth I was bouncing compared to the first birth.

And when dd was born by section 5 years ago - yes I found it harder to recover from than the previous section, but far far easier than the first birth. There was minimal bleeding from both sections. The scars occasionally niggle but nothing major.

So surely we are all different and will all experience things differently. And the main thing is not how our babies are born but that they are born safe and well?

[Booboostoo]

Your friend has an ax to grind so I doubt she would ever be able to think rationally about this. The very obvious point is that there is no one 'VB experience' and one 'CS experience'. It all depends on whether things goes smoothly or there are complications, whether the mother wanted this particular mode of birth or had to opt for another because of circumstances/medical reasons, how the birth was actually experienced, etc.

BTW I had a very pleasant ELCS which probably took a tad longer to recover from than an uncomplicated VB but was nonetheless completely non-problematic and easy.

[shesariver]

Do you know I cant abide people like your friend who, because something worked for them, suddenly come all over all evengelical about something and obsessed with spreading the word and converting other people to, and cant even think there may be an alternative viewpoint.

[AitchTwoOhOneTwo]

thebody, i would have put money on you being a nurse, funnily enough.

[Spuddybean]

i had a terrible vb 10 weeks ago and am still recovering (7 days of on off contractions, 3 days of labour after being induced, foreceps, tearing, surgery, loads of stitches, double incontinence, feelings of being a total failure). The 2 women in my nct group who had emergency sections recovered much quicker. So it depends on your experience.

Also the care you receive makes a massive difference. i was failed on almost every step of my pregnancy/birth.

[upsylazy]

I've had 3 VBs - 2 ventouse and one forceps and, if i was going to have any more, I'd ask for an ECS as the last birth was so horrific i still have nightmares about it occasionally. I think the whole natural/active childbirth movement began with the totally laudable aim of moving away from 1960s and 70s obstetric practices when birth definitely did become overmedicalised and there were lots of unnecessary interventions - my mum has told me how it was routine for women to be virtually strapped on their backs with their legs in stirrups, routinely shaved and given enemas etc.
However, I think it's really sad that something which was initially about empowering women has turned into yet another thing for women to feel they have to get "right". Educating yourself about birth and realising that you have choices is obviously a good thing but I get seriously pissed off with women like the OP's friend who become evangelical about the wonders of natural childbirth and bang on about how women's bodies are perfectly designed to give birth - as has been pointed out, for evolutionary reasons, this simply isn't the case. If it was the case,the vast majority of women wouldn't end up tearing or needing an episiotomy which tends to point to a bit of a "design fault". I just think it's so sad that so many women start motherhood feeling as though they've somehow "failed" rather than being proud of themselves for producing a perfect baby.
My best friend totally bought into the whole wonder of natural birth but ended up having a crash section as her BP was so high, she could have ended up having a stroke. She said to me that she felt as though she'd spent months preparing for a race but hadn't even managed to cross the starting line. I just thought that was so sad.

[thebody]

Aitch not sure why you are personally attacking me.

Yes I was a bloody good nurse and then worked in the district.

I saw many women who either felt they had somehow 'failed' as they didn't have a 'so called normal' delivery or they had pain relief or they didn't breast feed or they didn't look like a wag model in 2 days.

These comments are born of pressure out on women by mostly OTHER WOMEN.

Twats like the ops friend and birth bores who harp on about their experiences which are if course valid and precious to them but are individual and not a mantra for any other woman.

I have 4 children. 3 vaginal deliveries and one with forceps. One c section.

That's my story and no one else's.

I had to give up my career recently as my dd was very badly injured so please don't bloody lecture me in empathy. I have it in bucket loads but HATE this birth competition.

[Mibby]

I had a vb and it was awful. 36 hr labour, forceps, masses of stitches, ridiculous blood loss pp. If I ever have another I want a gold plated guarantee of a cs before conception!

[OneLittleToddlingTerror]

I think it all depends on the actual birth. My mum has a VB and a emergency c-section. Of course the VB is easier to recover from, because the c-section is unplanned!

I had a VB with ventouse and episiotomy. Not sure about the degree of tear, but mustn't be too bad. I was up and going straight after birth. I went to the hospital shower, cleaned myself of the blood, walked myself to the postnatal ward. Picked up my baby and gave her a feed. Next morning I was discharged with no pain. I didn't have pain from peeing either. So in my experience even an assisted VB can be very quick to recover from. I can't compare with c-section because I never had one. And I'd never dismiss anyone with their own experience.

[OneLittleToddlingTerror]

Oh and I had a very long labour too. It's 3 days because I know I went into the hospital in the wee hours of the morning and didn't give birth until the evening of the 3rd day.

The labour itself is awful, but not the recovery.

[AitchTwoOhOneTwo]

thebody, you spoke for THE WORLD, telling us all that birth stories are boring and of no interest to others. On a thread where people were telling their birth stories.

tbh that's just rude, but not atypical for those in the medical profession who transfer their own jaded values onto everyone else, while thinking they know every-bloody-thing.

and it's not an attack to say that you'd have guessed someone was a nurse. but it is revealing that you see it as such.

[grimbletart]

i don't think it's a straightforward CS v VB comparison. It seems to be 'what sort of CS' and 'what sort of VB'.

I've only had VBs - two. The second one was easy - insofar as birth is ever easy - and I was out shopping the next day.

The first was a nightmare with 48 hours of back to back labour, Keilland forceps and massive tearing. I couldn't bloody sit down properly for weeks and my innards felt like they were falling out for weeks afterwards as well. So if two VBs in the same woman were so different I don't really see how we can compare births of different types in different women.

Oh, and your friend is an almighty tedious twat.