to think capping benefits at 2 children is a good idea

[moogstera1]

Child-related benefits may be 'capped' at two children"
Iain Duncan Smith said the current system, where families get more benefits the more children they have, was among changes being considered.

Families on benefits were often "freed from" the decision of whether they could afford more children, Mr Duncan Smith said, and must "cut their cloth".

yes yes, before I get jumped on, if both your arms fall off and a previously hard working wage earner is jobless, there should be ( and I imagine would be)a safety net for those who then need benefits and have more than 2 chidren; but, in principle, I agree that working families seem to have to make much more difficult decisions regarding how many children they have than long term non working do, and it's mostly about finance.
The suggestion is that this would not be happening till 2015 and then only to new claimants so no comments about which children should be sacrificed, please.
The idea seems to be to only factor in 2 children wrt tax credits, child benefit

[freetoanyhome]

How long before the workhouse comes back?

[ConstantCraving]

Threads like this depress me. Capping benefits will lead to higher child poverty. My family are not entitled to any benefits as we now earn well enough - but I do not begrudge my taxes going into the welfare system. What goes around comes around. In the past I was one of those dreaded, feckless teenage mums who had a child with no income. If it hadn't been for benefits and (then) free University I would probably still be penniless. God knows how people are expected to help themselves nowadays.

I want to live in Sweden - honeytea society there sounds light years away from the UK.

[MrsKeithRichards]

I also think there's a tendency for some people who have bagged high earning husbands to forget what could be their lives. Things can change in k heartbeat.

[Mosman]

I have been through ICSI and do yes I do completely understand why you would put back two eggs if allowed to do or had that luxury but it can't then come as a shock when two children are created, especially if you already have 1.

As for abortion v's feeding existing children I am pretty sure if that was your choice you'd make damn sure you didn't get pregnant and if that meant obstaining then so be it.
Mumsnet has a disproportionate amount if accidentally pregnancies or bullshitters not sure which but I don't know anyone in real life who has had one accident never mind two.

[Fuchzia]

What's the issue here cutting welfare or stopping the poor from breeding 'fecklessley'? Prephaps if we made benefit for children one and two very generous so it could comfortably support more children if that was what the mother and father choose to do but in a more 'basic' way. If you just have two you have more money to spend.

However policies like these won't work with the chaotic families that it's aimed at where fathers are transient and multiple.

[moogstera1]

Constant but how many children did you have whilst not working? Did you expect to be able to have as many as you like? No, you used the system the way it should be used, as a safety net, not as a means of producing as many kids as you like with no thought as to how you were going to pay for them

[CassandraApprentice]

GhostShip I suppose it depends what causes the poverty - losing a parent or sudden ill health of parent of DC that massively impacts ability of family to work - such ill luck shouldn't be lumped with fecklessness.

You'd hope parents would want better for their DC I agree but substance abuse and poor mental health in parents can and does cloud this - and then there are the others who just don't give a fuck which already isn't fair on their DC.

[Pochemuchka]

Exactly moogster. Why should it always be families that are penalised? Far easier to go out and work when you don't have dependents.*

But then you don't seem to see the bigger picture.

*disclaimer - I personally don't want to see anyone poor penalised

[meboo]

I actually think it should be capped at 1 child. No one really appreciates the cost of a child until they have one and so if it is an unplanned pregnancy the state will support you. Now you know what happens when you have a child and what the costs are and how it all happens you take full responsibility as to whether or not you can afford another one, planned or not. I do appreciate that multiple births would need to be taken into account somehow.

[Wingedharpy]

I'm all for it.
I don't care if parents are working or not working, on benefits, off benefits or whatever.
Bring it in - if it has to be 2015, so be it but 2014 would be better.
Existing child benefits (for existing children) should stay as they are but people would be in a position to make their own choices regarding future, potential children.
Fo me it's about encouraging people to take responsibility for their actions and choices.
And while we're at it - I'd change the way that child benefit is paid now.
I'd remove the money element and pay it in vouchers which can be spent in shops on food, formula feed, children's clothing, nappies etc.
Since it's meant to be for the benefit of the child, it should be spent on the child and not Mum's/Dad's fags, booze, drugs etc.

[freetoanyhome]

I'm going to open a workhouse and win Govt multi million pound contracts now. Get in ahead of the crowd cos I bet A4E have thought of it already
Ironically, some of my ancestors died in the workhouse.

[freetoanyhome]

why do you assume all non working people drink, smoke and take drugs winged harpy?

[moogstera1]

Excellent Winged Harpy. My thoughts exactly, though I can't see it being too popular on here as the ethos seems to be That there are no people who play the system, no bad parents and nobody who actually prefers to be on benefit.
I'm a little disappointed that only one person has taken it so far out of context as to bring disability into it, but I live in hope...

[CassandraApprentice]

I don't spend the CB in fags or booze - it goes on school trips, music lessons.

It is also going on paint and stuff for the house because as soon as this house is in a fit state to sell we can moved to where DH now works saving travel and his week accomodation costs - leaving us massively better off.

Despite having DC I am capable of making decsion about where best to spend CB for my family.

[moogstera1]

She didn't say non workers all smoke and drink, she made the point that all benefits whether to workers or non workers should go directly towards things for children.

[Pochemuchka]

You sure, usual ? You don't know any of those families that sit on their arses while they get pissed and make babies while getting the state to pay for 'em 'cause it's a great life and 10 kids = 10 times the benefits.

Why aren't we all at it, eh? It's so lucrative.

[Dawndonna]

bored now.

[sweetkitty]

I wonder how much money will actually be saved? I'm sure having 6 kids on benefits isn't a bed of roses despite what the Tories would have us believe.

Maybe instead of doing this they should put a system in place which ensures every adult and company in the UK pays the correct amount of income tax, close the loopholes used by clever accountants etc.

[GhostShip]

I don't know anyone in RL that has the mythical 10 children families. That the Tories like to bang on about

Living on councils estates in Wigan, I've seen many.

[FreudiansGoldSlipper]

I prefer to tackle things a different way, we can not deny that many are in this cycle of living on benefits, expect a council property because their parents have one see the benefits system as a way of life we need to understand why, why their expectations are not higher keep kicking them down keep telling people they are scrounges and they will live up to it

I can not underrstand why quite a few who I study with have this attitude, they have no intention of working after they study or if they do they are not wanting to pay back the student loan so will only work part time. I really find it hard t understand where they are coming from, those I know feel very hard done but I I they key to understanding the attitude they have is the key to make changes