to think sure start are wasting public money?

[ontheedgeofwhatever]

We recently received a letter from our local children's centre saying they'd made an appointment for a family support worker to come and see us yesterday following the arrival of DS.

We emailed on Monday morning and asked them not to come as we didn't feel the need for a family support worker and we were managing quite well but thanks for the offer.

I came home yesterday to a card through the door saying that they'd come round and found me out.

AIBU to think that they should have listened when we said we didn't want the appointment and that they shouldn't have made the appointment in the first place without finding out whether we'd like one? A letter introducing themselves and inviting us to contact them if we'd like any help or support would surely have been far more economical and actually filtered out the peope like us who were quite happy without their services. Surely it costs quite a bit in terms of public money for two members of staff to perform a home visit?

[pongysticks]

Lottapianos why would you blame tories - Labour set them up? the tories are just trying to shut them down! they are a complete waste of public spending.

I have been told by a member of SureStart senior management (a friend) that the staff routinely get "Pissed Off" (her words over a glass of wine) when the posh parents use the services - she said it's pretty clear that the services are only for the poor families but we have to let everyone know about the centre. And then we get over run with the wealthy using these free services - she was also moaning that they even had a nanny using the toddler groups that they had advertised.

I did suggest other than showing a bank account statement on arrival at the groups maybe they need a big rethink or just some honest positioning in the community.

Some of the centres have been taken over by "Action for Children" so this shows some changes are happening and I would say in a few years they won't exist.

[Lottapianos]

Pongysticks, it's just not true to say they are a waste of money. Where I work, we have evidence to show that children who access SS services do better at school than those who don't. They were always designed to be universal, not targeted services. That's how Labour set them up, it's the Tories who are pushing the targeted agenda which is why I blame them. The attitude towards 'posh' families is certainly not one I have ever come across. Not saying you didn't hear that, but not all SS staff share those views.

[FredFredGeorge]

Round here - the centres have nanny/childminder only sessions (perfectly reasonable I think) they are also hardly ever used by "naice" people. I've always wondered why not, they appear to be used exclusively by non-English people - my DP is from North America and tends to see other similar ex-pats rather than English mothers/fathers. Don't know where they go (or particularly care other than idle curiosity...)

[bangersmashandbeans]

Pongysticks - so 'poor' families struggle and 'wealthy' ones don't?? What on earth does that mean? How well you cope with a baby/child has nothing at all to do with money. Breast feeding help and health visitor advice provided so valuably by sure start centres, as well as the many other brilliant services, are surely not exclusively required by 'poor' people. What a horrendous and narrow minded comment! All parents need support at some stage and I think it's fantastic that sure start centres are one of the few publicly funded places that provide this. Rant over!!

[halloweeneyqueeney]

it sounds like a good thing, I wasn't aware of what sort of help there was available so couldn't ask for it IYKWIM

[CailinDana]

Bangers - the problem is, the criterion in my local Surestart is that you're poor. So they're assuming only poor people struggle. If you're married, in a job, not on benefits etc they don't want to know you - hence the annoyance that my married, fairly well off friend took their course. I'm tolerated at the toddler groups but I'm sure if I looked for a place on their organised courses I wouldn't be welcome because, again, I'm not a "target" person.

[pongysticks]

Lottapianos - Guess it depends where you are in the country then? The SS staff I know don't hold back their views on the SS services and the people they are designed to help. I've no doubt children do better having accessed SS, But maybe the funding could be redirected to vastly failing educational areas where is would benefit the community and older children.

FredfredGeorge - in answer to the "nothing but Idle curiosity" i would guess they are at work maybe and paying for nursery / preschool etc so not having the time for the groups provided?

[vixsatis]

Not sure why baby massage should be available to anybody on the tax payer. It would be better if SureStart concenttrated its resources on really useful services for people who really struggle and whose children are likely to suffer because they are struggling.

[lisad123]

Children's centre research shows that parents are more likely to attend a group if they have net staff before and have chance to discuss groups ect.
Often parents mislay pieces of paper in early days.

[pongysticks]

bangersmashandbeans I think you misread my post? I didn't say

"so 'poor' families struggle and 'wealthy' ones don't??"

I simply highlighted that the SS in our area bemoan the fact they have to provide services to the wealthy parents.

[Lottapianos]

Baby massage is a really useful group! It helps parents to bond with their babies, a process that happens naturally for some but not for all. Parents learn not just how to massage baby with all the physical benefits that brings, but also how to read their baby's earliest communication cues. It makes it much more likely that parent and baby will have a positive relationship from the very start and that is so important for all sorts of reasons.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

Where we are the Surestart Centre is almost exclusively used by well off middle class families. There are centres in the less well-off areas of town, and I really can't see why there is one in our specific area of town.
I go to a group run by them (not actually at the centre) once a week, and the carpark is stuffed with 4x4s and there is a lot of Boden.
It used to be run privately, and cost £1.50, but now it is free. It seems a real waste of resources to me.

[FredFredGeorge]

PongySticks I don't see why a Dutch (for example) ex-pat is less likely to be working than a British mother or father at the same age. In fact I'd say more likely the reverse, and there are also plenty of English parents on other week day activities, so I don't think that can be it.

[catgirl1976]

I did think about the new state-of-the-art surestart centre that had been built in our town at clearly great expense. It's not an area where there are a lot of mums who need support IYSWIM and whilst I am sure they are really valuable where people need help I felt it might have been better to plough the money into a different area and have a small support centre where we are.

It just felt a bit over the top in terms of scale and expense. Maybe it gets used loads though and I am wrong, but it felt like a waste of money to me and what the OP describes sounds like it could be wasteful too

[BeyondLimitsOfTheLivingDead]

To the people complaining about middleclassness -

I have flying start here (south wales) is that actually the same as sure start?

When I went to my baby class the other day, I was told it "wasn't for people like me, it was for... umm... first time mums"

Its done by postcode, I live on a council estate therefore it is for me, surely? I would definitely call my parents MC, though I dont think its so simple to put someone in a class box nowerdays.

Either it is for people in my area -which they say it is, and obviously I live in my area!--, or "benefits claiming single mums"

[PropertyNightmare]

I assume they are doing this because of your 'postcode'. What a waste of money and it is also a bit off just to assume that because you live in a postcode of 'interest' to them that you will be someone in need of their input.

[TempusFuckit]

The Surestart baby group I went to last year has now been stopped because it attracted too many middle class mums, and the one a 5-minute walk away has been barred to my postcode. According to the woman who ran the cancelled course, it's not down to either Tories or Labour but Ofsted and their obsession with 'outcomes'.

I do know someone in my postcode who regularly calls up and books herself onto the nearby centre's classes by pointing out she's on benefits even though she lives on the naice side of the hill.

The nearby centre is clearly very outcome oriented, as nearly all its classes are for very specific types of parents - eg dads under 30 with bilingual kids. They do also have a childminder group, which in itself is probably laudable, but I'm not sure why childminders are more in need of social support than middle class mums. But there you go.

When I visit friends in south London (I'm on the south coast), we often go to a one o'clock club there, which doesn't seem to mind that I'm not even from the right city. Very different approach.

[EasilyBored]

I find it really sad that so many centres are having to turn mums away because they aren't in a 'target group', but if finding is based on 'outcomes' they might not have much choice. The three SS centres near me are open to anyone locally, but some classes are specific to the local postcodes, so you have to go to the one nearest you. There is a big range of women, not just middle class mummies on maternity leave. They also do specific groups for younger parents, parents of children with special needs, parents of multiples etc. Is a brilliant place, where I have made some great 'mum' friends. I actually couldn't recommend it enough.

[GoldenPeppermintCreams]

I work in a children's centre and we have two health outreach workers who do new birth visits to introduce them to our services. One is the worker who runs our Baby Group.

The aim of new birth visits is to get families registered on our system and introduce them to our services, so we can tell OFSTED that we've "reached" them. The sending an appointment through the post approach is very effective because people are either in waiting, or they call up and say "no thanks" but are happy to sign up by post or visit the centre and sign up. Sometimes people aren't in, and the workers will post a welcome pack through the door instead, and the parents will send the reg form back.

In our experience, people who are reluctant to use our centre because they think we are social services spies or are full of social services families are a lot happier to come when what we do has been explained to them properly. And they get a Baby Massage course for a tenner!

Not sure why they visited you, when you asked them not to. Maybe they didn't get the message?

[ceeveebee]

Our children's centre is also where the well baby clinics are held (for weighing etc) and the staff are always there speaking to all the parents to make them aware of their services. Have never heard of anyone having a home visit. But I guess it might be a good idea- if the family hasn't taken their baby to the well baby clinic then they would never find out about their services (the website is crap).

I have never come across any prejudice against middle class families either - it's a very middle class area round here so think they would struggle to get many people there if they restricted it. They helped me and some twin friends set up a multiples playgroup which has been a great source of support for twin families in the area.

[itwasallyellow]

YABU, I work in a children's centre and firstly they are not solely funded by Surestart aka the government, many are run by barnardos, the local council, the nspcc. Some offer targeted services, they take referrals from HV's so may have been asked to visit. They may not have received your email.

[GhostShip]

I volunteer at a Sure Start group and whilst I think a some of it is a bit , there's so so many mums and families who benefit from these visits. Youre obviously not one of them, so they should respect your wishes and leave you to it.