to not want school to teach my kids how to speak in the way the teachers wants?

[bellabreeze]

Having irish accents the teacher of some of my kids has told me they would do little speech classes so they speak different.. its not the accent but its things like saying 'ting' not 'thing' and dat not that and stuff like that really.. I think.. I don't think it is important enough to waste time doing? But maybe I am wrong?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Can you write to her explaining that this is their accent?

You could phrase it in a very polite way, by saying you are not sure you've understood, but in your accent 'r' sounds like 'w' (and so on), and you are not quite sure what the issue is?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

apo - sure, fair point. But England and Scotland weren't even referred to as one country/nation before 1603. It wasn't even an idea. Is my (ignorantly put) point.

[tittytittyhanghang]

Then i would say the teacher is mistaken and I'd be a bit at a teacher who couldn't differeniate a speech impediment from a (different) regional pronounciation, especially one as distinct as an irish one iyswim.

[AViewfromtheFridge]

I think the teacher is probably trying to ensure your kids can switch between registers.

So, where I am in Lancashire, the kids may pronounce the words right or alright as if they rhymed with eight in the playground, but we wouldn't expect them to do it in the classroom.

We need to be able to switch between registers according to context. I'm sure the teacher wouldn't be trying to eradicate the aspects of their aspect you've mentioned, but provide them with an alternative they could use in more formal circumstances.

[apostropheuse]

Point taken and agreed with LRD!

(Or in the words of the great Jim Royle.. fair point, well made Barbara!)

[AViewfromtheFridge]

Aspects of their accent - doh.

[habbibu]

Hmm, aview. Register again doesn't always have that much to do with accent, and I'm not sure why your example would be unacceptable in the classroom.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Thank you for being ok with that apo! I put if very clumsily and was cringing.

This doesn't sound like 'registers' (which would suggest different degrees of formality) - it's accent. Different thing.

[habbibu]

I mean, unless a particular pronunciation introduces definite confusion or ambiguity, I wouldn't be minded to address it. Children in Scotland pronounce things in a very different way to those in (say) the south of England - would you expect them to have an RP element in a formal register?

[AViewfromtheFridge]

Saying "areight" is informal. We teach our kids to recognise the formality of a situation. They can say it to their friends in an informal chat in class, but when addressing a teacher, in a formal discussion, they know they should say "alright", which they all do, in fairness.

Possibly it doesn't matter, and it shouldn't, but if you think of a job interview situation, people make judgements on your suitability for a role based on your ability to adapt to the situation you're in.

How old are your children, OP?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

How is it 'informal'?

Surely that depends on the accent you speak? If you pronounce a consonant there in formal speech, abbreviating it would be informal and/or bizarre.

But some people have a natural accent in which that consonant isn't pronounced, don't they?

I've never been in an interview when someone asked me to put on an accent - what an odd suggestion! Surely that only happens if you're an actor, which is quite niche.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I mean, obviously, if you've been taught to use an accent you weren't born with, you're not 'adapting', are you?

[habbibu]

But "alright" doesn't tell us anything about pronunciation. What other examples would you use?

[AViewfromtheFridge]

Most people can code-switch depending on the situation, often without noticing.

But point taken, the example I gave is not the same as the OP's.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

But code switching and changing accent aren't the same - that's what I was getting at when you gave that example.

I wouldn't use certain grammatical constructions, or certain terms, when speaking formally. But that's not to do with accent, IMO.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Also, I do think there is a big difference between an adult subconsciously code-switching, and a child being told they must lose their accent.

[flow4]

The teacher is wasting her time, OP. Language and accent are about identity. While your kids want to identify as Irish, they'll continue to say 'dis' and 'dat'. If there comes a point where they want either to distance themselves from their Irish identity, OR develop a kind of dual identity (which very, very many people in the English-speaking world do), they'll learn to say 'this' and 'that' instead or as well.

Feenie, the National Curriculum very specifically directs children to be aware of and use standard English vocabulary and grammar; it says nothing about pronunciation.

[MrSunshine]

people are actually advising that foreign children need to sound more english in order to fit in and get ahead in life? Racist Arrogant much?

[Gentleness]

As long as they genuinely understand their pronunciation isn't reflected in the spelling I can't see why there is a problem. But I had a colleague argue to include 'free' with 'free' in a list of common homophones we were compiling. Eventually she explained in frustration, "One, two, free! You know your numbers right?" It was a very embarrassing moment because I knew she was a bit sensitive (unecessarily) about her cockney accent - and she was a trained teacher!

Grammatical colloquialisms are different though. I think it's harder to remember to write, "we did" if you always say, "we done".

[sashh]

I ask because children tend to lose their accents anyway when they are out of the environment.

My accent drifts, but my brother still has his Yorkshire accent. He hasn't lived in Yorkshire since he was 11.

OP I think it is to do with the spelling and dialect words. I have been asked by an Irish person why in English the word 'tree' was spelled 'tree' when it was a tree in the garden but spelled 'three' when it was the number.

[ShobGiteTheKnid]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I assume the OP is a traveller. Schools often have extra resources put aside for travelling children, as literacy is often lower in travelling communities. The school may have this as a standard programme.

OP, it is designed to help your children, not offend them. Their accent won't be obliterated, but they will be taught to also pronounce their words int he conventional manner. I think this might be quite useful.

[AngusOg]

OP, it is designed to help your children, not offend them

I don't agree. This is offensive in the extreme and it harps back to the thinking in the 50s and 60s that somehow, English received pronunciation was the only acceptable way of speaking. This teacher is an ignorant eejit and is trying to both obliterate the national identity of your children and undermine their confidence in who they are. Has the teacher never heard Irish speech before? Amazing how the rest of us manage to spell (In English and in Irish!) even though the -th sound doesn't form part of spoken language. This teacher sounds both arrogant and ignorant. I know what I'd be saying if some racist twat came out with this to any of mine. And that IS what this is. If I were in your shoes, OP, I'd be having someone's guts for garters. As a starter.


If you are a travelling family (or even if you are not) have a word with the Gypsy Traveller liaison officer at your LEA. This teacher needs to back off - and fast. They are the one in need of some language education, not your children. Understanding there are four countries that make up the UK, each with their own accents and national identities, would be an excellent place for this thickfeck to start.

[SoupDragon]

This makes me wonder why people complain Irish names are pronounced using English phonics.

Either it is OK to pronounce things wrong or it isn't.

IMO, That/dat is one part of the accent that needs to be corrected as it isn't phonetically correct for the English language. This is not the same thing as eradicating an accent.

[exoticfruits]

It is quite possible to speak the way you want but be able to speak correctly - important if you want all doors in life open to you. Why close them to children?

[Hyperballad]

I can't believe some people think the Irish accent should be corrected! And I'm really sad to here people saying they should be changing the war they speak to fit in when it is their natural accent.

We should embrace diversity and differences not conform to one ideal.