to wonder how at least 5 different midwives/HVs missed that DS has a tongue tie?

[WhoopsieDaisie]

I had problems breastfeeding from the start and yes, he was latched correctly and positioned properly (had bf 3 before) but I still had bleeding nipples and was in incredible pain from day 3. I asked for help, saw different midwives and HVs, even saw a bf counsellor and not one of them suggested that might be the problem. They just said to carry on and it would pass. Unfortunately I got to the point where I could not stand the thought of feeding him because the pain was so bad so put him on formula at 6 days and stopped feeding completely at 8 weeks. I am sure it contributed to PND as I felt completely useless and counld not understand what I was doing wrong!

He is now 15 months and dribbles like a St Bernard and also chokes and gags on any lumpy foods so still has to have purees quite often.

I read up about in it and thought tongue tie might be the problem so when I saw the HV today, asked her to check and low and behold, he does have one and will need to be snipped.

Quite pissed off that it was never mentioned. I had never heard of it or seen it before.

AIBU to annoyed that this is not checked more often when bf is a problem?

[Madinitials]

I diagnosed DS with tongue tie myelf at 6 days old after having been readmitted to hospital due to his dramatic post-birth weight loss. I couldn't believe no one had picked up, one of my friend's whose daughter had also had it told me to google photos and see if his tongue looked the same. Luckily, his tongue was snipped at 10 days old as I could not have continued with the painful breasstfeeding. Hats off to those of you who breastfed for months.

[EmpressOfTheVampireSkulls]

YANBU. My tongue tie wasn't diagnosed until I was eleven (by an elocution teacher) and I had years of speech therapy before that. Once I wasd snipped I needed more therapy to learn to speak properly.

I don't think it's worth NOT getting it snipped.

[DartsRus]

I am 43 next week, and reading this I've just found out about tongue tie. And guess what? I've just checked and it looks very much like I have mild tongue tie myself! I've googled and compared to the pictures and used that murphy link shown earlier. May explain why I've always had trouble with certain sounds, especially in my french lessons at school....

[WhoopsieDaisie]

I shall wait until next week and hopefully the same HV will be at the clinic. So I will ask her to check again although she was fairly adamant yesterday and she can advise me on where to go from here. I would not particularly want him to have it snipped as he will need a GA it seems.

He will not poke his tongue out despite me constantly poking mine out at him all day!!

[RitaMorgan]

YANBU!

It should be checked for at birth, and snipped in the first week imo.

In tiny babies it is generally such a minor procedure - a few seconds and a few tears (though not all babies even notice) and that is it. After the first few months children need to be sedated of given a GA, with all the additional risk that comes with that.

[MajorBumsore]

Well it is hereditary. I have it, my brother has it, my cousin has it and her sister's two girls have it. My grandfather also had it and so does DD2. Incidentally she breast fed like an absolute dream from day one, unlike DD1 who is not tongue tied and who would not latch on at all.
In my area, babies have to go under general anaesthetic to have it snipped. Something I wasn't prepared to do.
I don't lisp and neither does my brother. My grandad and cousin did/do though. My tongue tie is quite bad too; tied right near the front, can't poke my tongue out at all.
My experience is that it doesn't have to be a problem

[signet]

DS2 is has an appointment with a consultant on 3rd nov. He is nearly 6 and has had speech therapy for the last 2 years. At his last appointment the locum speech therapist said the reason he can't make his sounds is he has tongue tie and it should have been picked up on long before this. Looking back at how he struggled to feed and how he can't lick things properly, I feel terrible that I hadn't realised. And angry that seeing SLT for 2 years no-one has noticed that he can't lick his lips etc. Actually, they knew he couldn't as I told them he couldn't do the exercises and all they said is keep trying. Rubbish.

[Reveller]

Both me and my brother were tongue-tied my brother is two years older than me and wasn't diagnosed despite not being able to talk properly until I got to talking age and had the same problems.

My poor mum had thought she was a bad parent until we were both diagnosed. I can't believe something so simple and yet so potentially troblesome is still regularly missed.

We both had to have a lot of speach therapy because of it.

[browneyesblue]

plumtart If a baby can stick its tongue out further than its lips, that doesn't automatically rule out a tongue tie. DS had a posterior tongue tie, which restricted his tongue's range of motion, although he could stick it out past his lips.

The tie itself was also not visible to the naked eye, and would certainly not have been spotted if he was screaming. It could only be diagnosed by touch, and by examining my symptoms.

There are 4 types of tongue tie, not just one, and there is no way of telling how severe the effects will be based on the appearance of the tie alone. Some mothers are able to bf a baby with a tie at the tip of the tongue (type 1 - anterior) without any ill effects, whilst a type 4 (posterior) tongue tie may be hidden, but can cause significant pain.

WhoopsieDaisie There is some excellent info on the different types of tongue tie here

I would go to a different GP, or find out where tongue ties are divided locally to you, give them a call and find out what they need for a referal. Some places will take a referal from a HV.

If it's any comfort, I also burst into tears when my GP treated me in a similar fashion. Since then, I have had a written apology from him and we are back on friendly terms (something that I would never have believed would have happened in a million years at the time).

If you don't know who divides tongue ties locally to you, you could post the county that you live in here, and maybe another Mumsnetter can help.

[TruthSweet]

There is a assessment you can do at home called the Murphy Maneuver that might help. Obviously it's better to get a trained IBCLC, Max-Fac specialist or similar to check but it's not always possible to get to one for what ever reason.

[plumtart]

Hold on here op,

I know youve had a horrendous time but you CAN experience exactly the same problems WITHOUT tongue tie.

I have had same problems with all 3 of my children. The BFC told me ds2 had tongue tie and needed the op which would be ages off in another city.

But the thing is, if baby can stick its tongue out beyond its lips the it isnt tongue tie.

Small babys will eventually copy Mum so if you play stick your tongue out with baby he will eventually try to copy you. When he does you will almost certainly see that he CAN stick his tongue our.

Your GP will have been able to see this when he was screaming as his tongue would be reaching to roof of mouth like it does when they scream.

Really, it can be tongue tie, but dont be downhearted if its not - it means you and baby avoid the trauma and hassle of an op.

Remember I was told my baby needed the op and HE DID NOT.

Oh yes, and ds1 dribbled for England for a fulll 2 years, none stop dribble.

[Hardgoing]

WhoopsieDaisy, you can look yourself, play a poking your tongue out game with your LO, and if they can't poke their tongue out, or it makes a heart shape (so centre is in mouth and sides stick out around it), they may have a tongue-tie.

Both mine had it, their dad has it, apparently according to the clueless consultant, it's not hereditary. What are the chances of that, eh?

I had one child's done when she was over two (also saw two HV, lactation consultant, dr for her latch difficulties, feeding difficulties, speech problems before anyone spotted it). The second I spotted at birth, but it took about seven weeks to pay privately for it to be cut- now the NICE guidelines indicate that it should be treated if there are breastfeeding problems.

I would get a second opinion and think about whether it's worth going through a GA to correct, they can't just snip them once they reach a certain age with a pair of scissors (as they do for babies, who squeal, then are breastfed immediately and it's over in seconds and heals well).

[Proon]

I'm another one who didn't get breastfeeding off to the start it needed because of tongue tie. The HV spotted it at 3 weeks but there was literally no advice beyond "most babies can breastfeed perfectly well with tongue tie" (Bestfeeding, j'accuse ) and to have it snipped meant a journey to a special paediatric unit several hours away (confirmed by another mother later with same problem) - all contributed to it just not feeling like the priority it was, so I thought I was overreacting and went on to express and bottlefeed.

I was very angry about it, I understand your feelings very well. Breastfeeding is an interaction between the baby's mouth and the shape of the mother's nipples and breasts: HOW can it be ok to say "most babies feed fine with tongue tie" when obviously it's going to depend on degree of tie and size of nipples?

I heard there was a positive education campaign from the ABM, sadly about three years too late for us. Shame on the healthcare professionals that it's still happening though.

[BertieBotts]

Biddys you can still push for it to be cut if you think it's affecting things he can do. For speech development reasons too.

[Nefret]

Someone should have noticed it!

My daughter has slight ongue tie and my doctor noticed it at her 8 week check. It never caused a problem with BF so I never had it fixed.

It is amazing that no-one spotted it before especially as you had problems feeding.

[oldraver]

I should also add.. DS spent a few weeks in Scbu, was initially tube fed, ;eeding onto bottle and b/f. we struggled for weeks at home the only thing that helped was a nipple shield which I assume was doing the job his little tongue couldn't.

He saw LOTS of HCP's including spending a week in hospital when he was 4 months. Lots of empahisis was put on MY possible lack of milk though they ignored the fact my DBM was feeding half of SCBU and hints that my milk wasn't good enough. No-one thought to check for this one simple thing, preferring to put MY milk through a whole battery of tests, DS through lots of tests and monitoring etc. He did have several other issues but Tongue Tie should of been dealt with easily

[PetiteRaleuse]

YANBU

I noticed DD's the morning we were due to leave hospital. They did the snip thing then.

It wasn't a feeding issue I just noticed it didn't look quite right.

[biddysmama]

yanbu, i noticed my ds's tongue tie when he was 9 months,luckily had no problems with breastfeeding, got referred and they told me that because there was no feeding problems it wouldnt be cut... she also said if i'd done purees and not blw he wouldnt have managed with his tongue (so would have been cut) hes 13 months and doing ok, just starting to make tongue sounds like dddddddd etc, can only drink out of toddler cups with a long spout and struggles with anything sloppy, he cant stick his tongue out and its forked as its tied at the front

[sparkle12mar08]

If anyone needs a number for a trained and insured private midwife who does TT snipping, pm me and I'll give you her number. She's based in Herts but will happily travel and is very experienced.

[rookiemater]

YANBU, its ridiculous that they don't check for tongue ties as part of the checks in hospital and sort it out there and then.
I gave up bf really quickly as DS has a tt and the home visit midwife said it would be a two week wait to get it snipped which felt like an eternity at the time. It's ludicrous because everyone knows it causes trouble with breast feeding not to mention potential issues with letter formation when they are older and it is so easy to sort it out.

[ElsieMc]

My GS who lives with me had a tongue tie which was not spotted at the hospital, but later spotted by the midwife. They are reluctant to snip tongue ties but my GS had to see a speech therapist who was also a little reluctant to recommend snipping the tongue tie.

We were in a difficult situation, although we have PR. The speech therapist referred us to a consultant and we decided that we would accept his decision before we went in. He said it was a very bad tongue tie and he recommended having it snipped. It was a minor operation and GS was up and about immediately afterwards. We do not regret getting it done for one moment.

There are other matters to consider. For example, we noticed he could not enjoy an ice cream and left them lying around - he couldn't lick them. Also, we thought of the possible impact when he got older and got a girlfriend. We were told of a fourteen year old who insisted on having his tongue tie fixed and we understand why.

When my GS went in for the operation, there were others on the ward whose children had awful feeding issues and the operation does not correct this immediately as it is learned behaviour.

I hope you can get a referral to a consultant - could your HV refer you or someone more sympathetic or even see another doctor for a second opinion - this is your right. Good luck to you. Please don't get too upset.

[oldraver]

I havn't read all the replies but YANBU
I think this should be part of the newborn check, it takes seconds, could be dith straight away (if the parents so wish) and would save lots and lots of stress for both the mother and most importantly the baby.

DS's tong tie wasnt discovered until he was about 7/8 months old after I had read about it on another parent site. When I think back to how much DS struggled with feeding it really angers me

[BertieBotts]

That's awful! Can you get your HV to follow it up? Preferably with a different GP!

[EllaDee]

I think you need a new GP! I cannot believe how rude that was! You have perfect right to 'bother' him when both you anmd the HV believe there is a problem and he made you cry! I am really angry for you.

I think you should complain about him to the practice. That is unacceptable.

[WhoopsieDaisie]

He could'nt even see inside DS's mouth as he was screaming from the time we walked into the office and would not poke out his tongue.