toask you if you would have a problem with someone who has Aspergers Syndrome looking after your children?

[AtYourCervix]

Babysitting, nursery or nannying type childcare.

Would you want to know?

Would it be an issue?

[SiamoFottuti]

are you serious? Thats an awful lot about YOUR rights to do what you want, not a lot about the rights of a small baby not to be injured if you had a seizure, or the rights of the parents to know that it is a possibility.

It's not about discrimination, and its not about labels, its about practicalities, which don't go away just by wishing it. I don't care about your particular dx, aspergers, epilepsy or anything else. I do care if there are definite aspects of yourself that impact on your ability to do the job you need to do. It isn't discrimination that says you wouldn't employ a blind person to be a bus driver, is it?

[Pelagia]

Thanks Loudlass. I think its different for parents than it is for 'hired' child care but not sure I can explain why really. I suppose because I have looked after my own DC when I wouldn't have felt well enough to look after someone elses, iyswim.

Your safety measures sound well thought out and I hope that the medication is as effective as possible for you.

[CardyMow]

I am NOT saying that I personally would take a nannying job and not inform the parents of my epilepsy - just that anyone with epilepsy could do that.

Please don't put words in my mouth when I am just explaining the legal standpoint with regagrds to epilepsy.

I look after my own dc despite my epilepsy, with safety measures in place. I would not feel comfortable doing so for other people, and I always inform friends if they ask me to look after their dc after school etc, giving them the choice.

[CardyMow]

I apologise for the rogue 'g' in regards.

[SiamoFottuti]

you are certainly defending that as a course of action, saying "why would that be a problem" and "medieval attitudes to epilepsy". Which is quite frankly ridiculous, if you knew what actual medieval attitudes were.

[CardyMow]

Oh, I do know what medieval attitudes to epilepsy were - that people with epilepsy were posessed by the devil, and usually tried by dunking stool. . I also know that in the 1950's, people with epilepsy (such as my great-aunt) were incarcerated for life in mental institutions for being brain damaged.

I am neither condoning the fact that non-declaration of epilepsy in a nannying situation is possible, or encouraging it, purely stating that the law is such.

What I was asking 'why would that be a problem' to was working IN A NURSERY when I suffer from epilepsy - I wouldn't be in sole charge of the children. And it seems to me that some people on MN try to have vey enlightened attitudes towards most disabilities, yet epilepsy is still regarded as something 'scary' that no-one wants near their family.

[Valetude]

There are quite a lot of people who are NT who I wouldn't leave my children with (including a few of the parents at school) - I don't think AS would matter to me, it's the person it is who matters.

[fargate]

I'm going to go against the grain here, I'm afraid. I would have concerns depending on the severity of AS - by nature of the diagnosis a lack of empathy or warmth would be a problem for me because it's so important to a child's emotional security and attachment. Sorry. I say this from personal experience of working with a someone with a formal but undisclosed diagnosis of AS in a childcare setting - eg the unintentional, dispassionate tactless very personal 'observations' were really hurtful to children and staff alike.

I feel that there are plenty of other jobs more suitable and just as rewarding

Also, I have epilepsy myself and have seizures without any warning and post-ictal confusion so potentially a hazard lone working with small children when my EP is poorly controlled. I have been lucky to have been well supported in my job - not least because of the obligations of my employers under the Disability Discrimination Act.

[tibni]

Yes I would. Ds, severe ASD, goes to a playclub for children with autism and one of the staff has Aspergers and she is fab. It depends on the individual if I am comfortable with them looking after my child.

[SiamoFottuti]

Epilepsy is scary. I've had seizures, I know how scary, and pretending it isn't doesn't help anyone. It must scare you too, or you wouldn't take the precautions you do. Some people with uncontrolled seizures would not be suitable to work in a nursery, the lack of sole responsibilty wouldn't change that.

There is no reason to attack anyones "prejudices" when no-one has stated any.

[littleducks]

Loudlass- what precautions can you take with toddlers though? I would expect my sensible 5yr old to deal with someone fitting, if prepped...she knows to call 999 in emergencies, but my 3 yr old's (hyper/climber/able to bypass all childproofing/basically the opposite of sensible) reaction would worry me

[Kladdkaka]

I have Asperger's and have been a brownie/cub scout leader since I was 14. Interacting with a single adult, difficult and stressful. Looking after and entertaining 30+ kids, don't even break a sweat.

[Mitmoo]

As everyone else says it depends on the person.

I am the mother of autistic child HF, he absolutely adores cats and babies.

He can't tell you a lie, he has to confess everything, he has an intense sense of right and wrong so would never rip you off, he'd never hurt anyone. So there are many benefits to having AS for employers qualified by AS is a huge spectrum and can't speak for all.

[Mitmoo]

by nature of the diagnosis a lack of empathy or warmth would be a problem for me because it's so important to a child's emotional security and attachment

Not all autistic people lack empathy and warmth and even those who do, don't lack empathy and warmth across the board.

My son can be brutally honest but he'd never say a wrong word to a toddler. His cat he calls his "brother from another mother" and gets so much love and cuddles.

With ASD it's impossible in my experience to generalise.

[fargate]

I agree mitmoo people with an ASC are all individuals with their own strengths and weaknesses. And also social-communication difficulties ameliorate with increasing maturity and social skills training. In my defence I did say ''depending on the severity....''Plus, some people are lacking in empathy without having ASD.

Also, I know I'm still influenced by my negative experience of my colleague -altho' what I wrote above is only a very brief description of the difficulties. It's a real person and I don't want to say any more.

In the past, I have been involved in many ASD assessments of young people and lack of empathy whilst not a core symtom IME is very common. I'm not an expert on your DS or any of the people with ASC above but I do have expertise in AS in general.

Can feel a name-change coming on.

[Mitmoo]

I'm not a flamer, though I do stand my ground with those who do flame, I appreciate a debate about mental health issues as it gets lots of different views out there.

Hands up, my son does lack empathy in many situations, I could be throwing up in the loo and he's say "you are putting that on because you don't want to take me fishing". His nan is very ill and she according to him "is using you Mum". conveniently forgetting I run around like a BAFly after him

That lack of empathy and compassion does not extend to babies, toddlers or cats when he is completely appropriate.

I may not agree with your opinions but you have a right to express them.

[silverfrog]

As a blanket policy, no I would not have aproblem with it.

but (and there is always a but...) - it does entirely depend on the individual. I think I would want to know, not so that I could exclude, but so that I could help as much as possible. eg I might leave far more comprehensive lists if I felt the person may not be great at flexible thinking (and I stress the might leave lists!)

I might want to run through some hypothetical situations, to see what the individual's reasoning was like.

do bear in mind that children are unpredictable - working with lots of mini bundles of randomness might not be the most fun a person with AS could have. on the flip side, working with mini bundles of randomness might be the best thing ever - lots of scope for other world imagination, lots of days of (possibly) quite routine, regular stuff.

the key to it might be finding parents/families where she would fit in well with the style of parenting already going on - eg if she likes regular routines, she might prefer to work in a household with set meal times and bedtimes. if she is ok doing everything on the hop, she might prefer to look for a household which shuns routine.

my dsd has AS. She has babysat for me before, but not often (my dds are 7 (severe ASD) and 4 (probably AS)). she si ok once they are in bed, and is fabulous playing with them, but is not ok with handling anything out of routine - so if dd1 wants a different meal form dd2 (which never happens, and dsd knows this) - even the asking would throw her and she would panic, as would not have an answer ready. small children can be brutal if they sense an adult on the hop (or maybe that is just my small children ), so your dd woudl need to be confidant she could handle on the spot randomness.

[fargate]

Do you think I'm 'flaming' you mitmoo?

Just my POV based on my experience. Why wouldn't I stand my ground too?

[RitaMorgan]

Completely depends on the person, doesn't it?

I've met some people working in childcare who can be incredibly rude, inflexible, lack warmth and empathy - but not because they have AS, just because they are nasty bitches.

If someone has the right disposition, personality, qualifications and is physically and mentally fit enough to work in childcare, then Aspergers or any other condition shouldn't be a barrier.

[Mitmoo]

fargate posts; Do you think I'm 'flaming' you mitmoo?

Just my POV based on my experience. Why wouldn't I stand my ground too?

Fargate absolutely not!!!!!! When you said you would name change I took that to mean you thought you would get flamed. Not from me though. I think is valuable to have these debates.

I try to flame the flamers

Apologies if I didn't make myself clear.

[saintlyjimjams]

No problem at all.

The ds's nursery used to employ someone with a moderate learning disability. He was fab with the kids. Of course he didn't have sole care (wouldn't have been fair on him) but he loved his job and did it very well.

[saintlyjimjams]

My severely autistic son btw is very affectionate, warm, and loving who has strong emotional relationships with the people he cares about. (He wouldn't be remotely capable of looking after a child and will need 24 hour care the rest of his life, just arguing against the cold unemotional ASD stereotype). I have met many NT's who seem utterly devoid of empathy and many with HFA/AS who seem empathic.


I might reject someone as a childcarer who happened to have AS, but I wouldn't reject someone because they had AS iyswim.

[fargate]

No think I'm outing myself a bit too much today, thats all. Sorry.

[michelleseashell]

Definitely wouldn't have a problem with it. My brother has aspergers and he is just as capable as anyone else to look after children.

Besides, there are plenty of people who wouldn't be the greatest at working in childcare. Myself included!

[Lougle]

Loudlass a person with uncontrolled epilepsy working with children, responsible for their welfare, would be on very dodgy ground if they did not declare their epilepsy. HTH

www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/employment/looking-for-work

"Applying for jobs (England, Scotland and Wales)

The Equality Act means that employers can?t ask questions about your health or disabilities before they offer you a job, without good reasons. A good reason would be if a person needed to have reasonable adjustments made for a job interview or assessment. Or, the employer may need to know if there are any health and safety reasons why a person could not do a specific job. Employers should only use medical questionnaires, before offering you a job, when they are strictly necessary.
Job interviews

The equality laws mean that during an interview, employers can only ask questions about your epilepsy that relate directly to the job you are applying for. For example, they could ask how your epilepsy could affect your ability to do that job safely. They can also ask about reasonable adjustments they may need to make, to help you do the job.
Telling potential employers about your epilepsy

You don?t have to tell your employer or a potential employer about your epilepsy, if you don?t feel it?s relevant. This could be the case if your epilepsy is well controlled and won?t affect your ability to do your job safely and effectively.

If you don?t declare your epilepsy and it does affect your ability to do your job safely, your employer may be able to dismiss you. Your employer would have to prove that they gave you the opportunity to tell them how your epilepsy could affect your job. They would also have to prove that you didn?t provide this information. They must also prove that at the time you applied for the job, your epilepsy could have caused health and safety risks.

When you are deciding whether or not to tell your employer about your epilepsy, here are some things to consider.

If your employer doesn?t know about your epilepsy, they can?t make reasonable adjustments under the equality laws to help you do your work. What?s more, they couldn?t be blamed for not doing so.
If your employer doesn?t know about your epilepsy, they won?t know how to help you during and after a seizure.
It?s very important to make sure that you are fulfilling your responsibilities under the Health and Safety at Work Act.
You may not be covered by your employer?s insurance if they don?t know that you have epilepsy.

If you do decide to tell your employer about your epilepsy, it would be advisable to do this before you begin the job. This would give them time to arrange any reasonable adjustments for you, if necessary.

If you don?t declare your epilepsy before starting a job, you can change your mind and tell your employer at any time. You might do this if your seizures become more frequent or severe, and you feel they may start to have an effect on your work.
Employer?s insurance

Your employer?s insurance may pay you compensation if you are injured at work, or if you become ill because of your work.

If you have not told your employer about your epilepsy you may not be covered by their insurance, for accidents related to your epilepsy. This means that you would not receive any compensation if you had an accident caused by your epilepsy.

We can provide references and information on the source material we use to write our epilepsy advice and information pages. Please contact our Epilepsy Helpline by email at [email protected]."