To believe it is right that "shorts mum" is released?

[Mitmoo]

A woman who reportedly slept through the riots in Manchester, England, was jailed for allegedly taking a pair of shorts looted by a friend, officials said.

Ursula Nevin, 24, was ordered freed on appeal, The Guardian reported Friday.

Nevin, a mother of two, was held for five months before being released in what is believed to be the first successful appeal against a sentence related to rioting and looting in England earlier this year.

Nevin admitted to accepting the shorts from a friend who allegedly took part in rioting in Manchester. The severity of her sentence was questioned because she wasn't involved in the actual crime.

Judge Andrew Gilbart said he ordered Nevin freed because she didn't take part in the riots.



Read more: www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/08/19/Woman-freed-in-stolen-shorts-case/UPI-33211313770204/#ixzz1VY7Mq93n

I couldn't beleive she shot 5 months for this in the first place. She was wrong to have taken the shorts from her friend and to let her friend into the flat with the looted property but she wasn't on the streets terrorising anyone and should IMO have been sentenced lighter than those who were.

I am glad the appeal judge has freed her.

[PamSco]

Cogito I don't think the bastardisation of case law for economic protectionism is a good thing. The law is the law and as you say should be followed through - but consistantly. I am proud to live in a country with a fair legal system of case law and appeal. Any undermining of this would be a bigger crime than a JD Sports raid.

Muggings, murder, robbery and arson should be treated as harshly (based on the case) as they would at any other time.

[Andrewofgg]

The same judge had handed out some condign sentences himself earlier in the week to those even more seriously involved.

[Glitterknickaz]

I really don't think thousands were involved. Round about one thousand perhaps is more accurate. It was definitely a minority, albeit a worryingly well organised one.

Our extremely overstretched prison service cannot sustain prison sentences given out to make the government look like they've got a handle of this (I don't believe they have, the causes are way too complex).

Yes.... for those who have committed arson, who have killed or endangered life or caused any suffering they absolutely should face custodial sentencing. For cases such as this being made to clean up what the rioters caused, being made to meet the victims (ie those above the carpet shop who are now homeless with only the clothes they fled in) and to directly assist the victims with getting their lives back on track.... far more effective sentencing here, and useful.

[GypsyMoth]

This woman will have likely watched the riots on tv! Stupid cow deserved what she got, and I hope the scare before her appeal made her age a few years!!

[Mitmoo]

A different case but still about justice being too swift endangering real justice being achieved.

From Sky.

Saturday August 20, 2011

A teenager detained for nine days after he was charged with setting fire to a clothing store during riots in Manchester has been cleared of any wrongdoing.

Dane Williamson was arrested after a Miss Selfridge store was torched on August 9 - destroying up to £319,000 worth of stock.

The 18-year-old from Salford claimed it was a case of mistaken identity and he could prove he was somewhere else at the time.

At his first hearing at Manchester Magistrates' Court, Mr Williamson's lawyer pleaded his innocence - but an application for bail to clear up the matter was refused.

But, later that same day, the teenager was told the case against him had been dropped.

His flat was burned down when he was inside and he's lost everything.

[littlebluespring]

I think there is a difference between allowing somebody to bring thousands of pounds worth of stolen goods into a house that is solely yours, and living in a house where your flat mate brings in stolen goods.

The woman who has been released on appeal was in a shared house; she did not pass stolen goods from the flat mate on to anybody else. From that perspective she can only be held responsible for the pair of shorts she took and not for the other goods, which were handled by the flat mate, not her.

I can't see how she can be given more than the standard punishment of a fine or community order for handling stolen goods (the shorts alone) worth about 20 pounds.

[catgirl1976]

Mitmoo - do you know this woman? You seem a bit bothererd and have started at least 2 threads about her.

At the end of the day she handled stolen goods and should have got the standard sentenance for that crime, taking into acocunt the aggravating factors of the looting and any previous, relevant convictions. The fact she is a mother is totally irrelevant.

[Pamplemoussse]

I am much admiring the use of condign, Andrew, v good

[GypsyMoth]

Ah just realised it's a mitmoo thread!

[Mitmoo]

catgirl there are thousands of people commenting on the riots and the sentences across many forums, do you believe they all need to know the rioters/fencers in order to be allowed to comment on them on forums?

littleblue It's all about the severity of the crime and appropriate and proportionate sentencing to me.

[Pamplemoussse]

lolo at ''a Mitmoo thread'', Sara

[Mitmoo]

Sara you are really not saying who starts the thread makes a difference to how posters would respond.


So you have anything relevant or of interest to contribute to the debate?

[Pamplemoussse]

yes who posts what does make a difference, you know

[catgirl1976]

I don't think anyone else has started 2 threads about 1 looter in particular Mitmoo.

If you had vanished from MN for a week or two I'd have started to think you were "shorts mum". :)

[Mitmoo]

Thanks Pample, that's what I've been saying but it's been rather amusingly denied.

Back to the topic, have you managed an opinion on it? Care to share?

[Mitmoo]

catgirl I am very much looking forward to you posting something of value on the topic.

[edam]

I've been astonished to see magistrates and judges acting so bizarrely. The courts clearly aren't always dispassionate and rational. Dealing with all the appeals will tie up the courts and cost a huge amount of money - what a stupid waste of resources. People should have been sentenced according to the standard guidelines and the seriousness of the offence.

The paper today was saying it's causing huge problems in the prison system, which has reached record numbers. And it's extremely dangerous - you've suddenly got loads of first time offenders who don't know how to stay safe in prison - already three 'rioters' have been seriously assaulted in one young offenders' institution, and one of them was only on remand, so hasn't even been found guilty of anything yet.

[TidyDancer]

Who posts makes no difference at all to me. I'm still annoyed she's been released. It's absolutely right she was jailed for what she did. I just hope the time she's spent inside this time was enough to make her think about her actions in the future.

[GypsyMoth]

I already Oates, but I guess the biggest punishment was before her appeal. The thought of 5 months sentence.... She didn't know she would get a positive appeal at that point

Don't think she would do it again if given the chance, in fact, doubt she could ever look at a pair if shorts again let alone wear any

[GypsyMoth]

*Oates? Commented

[catgirl1976]

I am very much looking forward to seeing you in your new shorts.

[Mitmoo]

edam you are right, one man locked up for the Selfridges arson and kept on remand has been released when other compelling evidence came to light to show his innocence. While he was inside his flat has burned and he's lost everything.

The prison service is almost at capacity, and it looks like riots on the streets could be transferred to inside the prisons. Which if they are guilty of heinous crimes during the riots I will have little sympathy, but say it was the water bottle man who stole £3.50 worth of water from an already raided shop then I most definately would.

[GypsyMoth]

Stealing the water or stealing diamonds...... No difference. He stole.

[Mitmoo]

Tidy what was wrong for me was that she was not a looter or a rioter, she was an opportunistic idiot. Her flatmate who did the looting is inside and that is where she should be as she was one of the feral rats on the streets terrorising innocents and a part of those who instilled fear into the res of us even if the riots didn't reach our towns.

But 5 months for taking a pair of looted shorts was not on IMO. I'm glad the judge has overturned that particular sentence.

[edam]

So it's not just irrational, unduly harsh sentences, it's not bothering to investigate properly nor test the prosecution case properly in court so they are locking up innocent people. What a mess.