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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Most women aren't pretty: Julie Burchill

96 replies

revolutionscoop · 11/08/2011 11:01

With apologies in advance for linking to the DailyHeil;
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2024655/Face-ladies-NEVER-pretty.html
AIBU in thinking Burchill's got a point?

OP posts:

carminagoesprimal · 11/08/2011 11:45

She's not that fat....

emmam25 · 11/08/2011 11:45

I really don't agree with her (or at least I don't think I do, I struggled to understand the main gist of the article ) It seemed as though she was saying "you'll never be pretty so don't bother" but IMO it is not bothering that stops people from being as "pretty" as they can be. You only have to look at shows like How to look good naked to see that more or less anyone can look "pretty" with a bit of time and effort. That said I would say the term "pretty" is subjective but "beauty" is a societal construct.

carminagoesprimal · 11/08/2011 11:46

AJ looks quite masculine I always think.

emmam25 · 11/08/2011 11:51

MsAnnThropy - I agree with you that beauty can be defined by differences; even the fashion industry recognises this. Look at someone like Lily Cole or Lara Stone. Undoubtedly beautiful but also unconventional.

GrendelsMum · 11/08/2011 12:22

I was just thinking about this issue of pretty v beautiful yesterday. I was taking some photos for work of teenagers on a trip, and looking through the results. One girl I would describe as beautiful, although close up, her skin had quite a few spots. another girl I described to a colleague as being very pretty. I was trying to work out what made me class one as beautiful and one as pretty, and came to the conclusion that one had a much stronger bone structure than the other. I expect she'll look beautiful when she's elderly, whereas the pretty girl had very nice hair and skin and a lovely smile, but not the strength of facial structure. I think that pretty is often a synonym for youthful and happy looking, while beautiful is something else.

P.s. I, of course, am strikingly handsome in my paint splattered fleece...

Treats · 11/08/2011 12:37

I liked the article. She's right that we shouldn't be sucked into the idea that we're all beautiful. Objectively, we either are or we aren't, and if we're not, then we should just get over it and focus on more important things. Subjectively, of course, we all have our individual quirks that make us intriguing and attractive to those who love us, but those quirks don't come out of a jar.

I hate, hate, HATE the school of thought that says women need to have plastic surgery, wear make up or dress in high heels to boost their 'self-confidence'. There might be things we do to our appearance because we enjoy doing them and we like the way we look, but that's because they express our individuality, not because we conform better to somebody else's ideal.

Popbiscuit · 11/08/2011 12:49

Love

SlackSally · 11/08/2011 13:03

Bitchy (and deluded) as she is, I think she has a point. Most women aren't 'beautiful' if you class beautiful as something unusually attractive.

By default, we can't all be better looking than average, can we?

Someone has commented on the article (maybe a MNer?) that she tells her children they are beautiful all the time. Lovely as this is, is this setting them up for a fall when they're older and someone says 'you're ugly/fat/have a big nose/small eyes/whatever'.

Can we teach children that they're 'beautiful' without making them all think they're supermodel material?

catgirl1976 · 11/08/2011 13:10

Also laughing at the "I used to be a looker" comment. Erm......no. But you are currently deluded.

glitterkitty · 11/08/2011 13:23

Apparently Julie is so unpopular with her colleagues, that the picture desk is increasing the width of her byline photo at the rate of one pixel a week to make her look even fatter...

MsAnnThroppy · 11/08/2011 13:47

Birchill is also indirectly responsible for Tony Parsons' "literature", which is another reason to hate her.

Slacksally isn't the inverse of what you say letting our children know they are beautiful even if they are not supermodel material. Ie, redefining the notion of "beauty" so it is not so excluding of everone who is not tall/slim/uniform in features. Being supermodel material is only important if you want to be (or want your kids to be) a supermodel. It's a subjective exercise, surely? So telling your own kids they are gorgeous, even if, by today's objective (ie, supermodel) standards they are not, is not setting them up for a fall but telling them they are valued just as they are, flaws and all.

janelikesjam · 11/08/2011 13:53

very funny glitterkitty re. pixels and Ms Annthroppy re. Tony Parsons.

I am very beautiful (but sadly not very funny) which is a disadvantage on MN.

You can't win 'em all!

CurrySpice · 11/08/2011 13:58

I had trouble relating to JB's views, being so drop dead gorgeous myself

I was never told I was beautiful as a child. In fact, frequently the opposite by my peers :(

I make damn bloody sure I tell my DDs ALL the time that they are beautiful because a. in my mind they are and b. I would hate them to be as unconfident about their appearance as I still am to this day :(

IAmTheCookieMonster · 11/08/2011 14:01

it it just me or has she missed the point with the "happy girls are the prettiest girls". The fact is that the possession of beauty is no automatic guarantor of happiness.

I took it to mean that if you are a happy person then that makes you attractive rather than being pretty makes you happy.

She is a dimwit, and I don't think she was "a looker" when she was 25!

cuteboots · 11/08/2011 14:02

Obviously she hasnt got any mirrors in her house! "I used to be a looker" HA HA HA !!

BelleDameSansMerci · 11/08/2011 14:03

I am a mosey cow like to people watch and, when I worked in London, used to like looking at people on the tube. I always thought the most women actually are attractive or have something appealing about them.

Now, most men, on the other hand, are decidedly unattractive.

BelleDameSansMerci · 11/08/2011 14:04

Nosey! Mosey makes me sound like a cowboy...

janelikesjam · 11/08/2011 14:07

But in fairytales (and the media) beautiful women get it all i.e. the rich, handsome man.

Real life is not QUITE like this. But women are led to believe how good looking they are will be the most important thing in their life.

Continuum · 11/08/2011 14:07

Well it's never bad to point out the pile of crap that is the fashion world and the beauty industry. But she appears to have gone about it within the confines of their definition. Thus she "was" beautiful, but now she's not and that's fine, rather than questioning her own definition of beauty and why she holds it and why she thinks it's important to say she once was beautiful (whether one thinks so or not).

EdithWeston · 11/08/2011 14:10

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

If she wishes to see ugliness, that's her loss.

glitterkitty · 11/08/2011 14:10

Yes Belle, agree most women are def better to look at.

Poor men. Imagine a life with a bristly chin, spot you cannot cover up and no mascara. You cant even get highlights without it looking a bit dubious.

LineRunner · 11/08/2011 14:11

She certainly had 'a look' when she was at NME. Dyed black hair, long fringe, sulky pouting mouth, sucked in cheekbones and lots of eye makeup and blusher. The same look that thousands of young women had.

All copied from Siouxsie and Chrissie. JB wasn't even original.

Her writing is faux demogogue and just a teensy bit crap.

janelikesjam · 11/08/2011 14:12

Yes glitter but don't you think its unfortuante that lots of women have to sleep with them ...

lachesis · 11/08/2011 14:17

Well, that's certainly true of her.

MsAnnThroppy · 11/08/2011 14:23

HA HA, Linerunner, I was just on the loo thinking about JB (that's where usually like to think about her) and thinking about her byline picture from the NME, just as you describe. And I did think, Chrissie Hynde. Now CHRISSIE is beautiful, talented and interesting, beautiful within and without. JB was like a cream egg, might look vaguely appealing on the outside, but what's going on on the inside likely to induce a bilious reaction.

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