To consider a nursery where the children don't get to go outside?

[RevoltingPeasant]

This is kind of hypothetical, as I don't have DCs yet, but DP and I are hopefully going to start ttc next year and I am already making hideously premature plans getting excited.

I also plan to sign up for nursery basically as soon as we start ttc because I know about the difficulty of getting places.

So.... where I work there is an on-site nursery. A colleague uses it for her two DCs and loves it. It is about 2-3 min walk from my office, so if anything ever went wrong, I'd be there like a flash. DC would commute in with me to work and we could spend lunch together sometimes, etc. I would probably also get a discount as a staff member, though not much of one.

There is also a nursery about 15 min walk away from where I work. It is highly rated, and another colleague uses it and loves it.

The difference between the two nurseries is that the first has no outside area. Instead, they have this weird 'open basement' set-up - kind of hard to explain - where the bottom floor is just below ground level and has safety bars around it, but is otherwise open to the air - bit like an underground parking garage. The children play there every day, but they're not out in the sunlight.

The other nursery has a garden where the DCs go out when it's not raining. Colleague A says the on-site nursery is fine; Colleague B says she can't imagine not allowing her DS to play out in the sun 5 days a week. I have to say I'm leaning towards convenience - but am I being unreasonable/ neglectful??

[Rebecca41]

I'd definitely go for the one with the outdoor area. Kids need proper outdoor space, with sun and air and a view of the sky and birds and so on.

I wouldn't start my baby in one place then move them. Babies get attached to people and places, and so do parents. You will find it much harder than you imagine to change nurseries once you've got used to a certain system etc. And even babies need outdoor space. Admittedly not to crawl around when they're not mobile, but they still need sunshine.

I wouldn't visit at lunchtime either. The staff would hate it, and your child will be distressed and confused, not knowing whether it's lunchtime or pick-up time.

[Meita]

I was in a similar situation. Ended up chosing a CM near to where we live, rather than near to where I work, instead. Lots of advantages IMO.

Have you considered what it will be like to commute with your DC every day - there and back? What it will be like for you, and for your DC? Depending on how long your commute is, imagine having to entertain a tired/grumpy/hungry/bored baby/child for that time, twice a day... Also, you'd never be able to make an early start/have a late evening/do drinks with colleagues after work or the likes.

Apart from that, no, we decided against the on-site nursery despite it being heavily subsidised, because it is in a basement, has no natural light/lights on all day, and only has a basement-courtyard like outside space, and they only take the kids out 2x/week. But your priorities might be different.

[NoobyNoob]

Outside for sure. DS loves it, they go out in all weathers and learn about the different flowers and veggies they have growing.

In terms of putting DS'c name down now, I know what you mean. My BF works as a nursery supervisor in a rather prestigous nursery, it's not unheard of that parents book their DC's in after the 12 week scan! Mental really.

[giraffesCantZumba]

When I used to temp in nurseries I found myself much more energetic/refreshed (can't think of the right word) in nurseries where they had a garden/went out. Otherwise stuck in same room all day and gets a big stagnant. So I think Its good for staff too. Breaks up the day more for the children too. If it was a couple of days then wouldn't mind closer but 5 days then would prefer outside.

[razzlebathbone]

The one with an outside because it's better for them and it would not be a good idea to start lunchtime visits anyway. Completely unnecessary.

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

I had DS's name down at 5 months PG and he couldn't get all the days we wanted at 10 months old, had to wait another 3 months. Ours only had limited outside space, but they did try and make the most of it and there were three parks within walking distance, one just across the road that they used regularly.

Also, you haven't said how far they are from where you live, depending how far apart work and home are, if you had a second baby and wanted to keep number 1 in nursery (which you would have to at least part time to keep the place) while on mat leave you might have a long journey. We chose a nursery near home rather than near work, it meant we had to rush back every night, but at least DCs didn't have a long car journey at the end of the day. My friend who had hers in nursery where she worked 45 mins from home found they would fall asleep in the car coming home then not want to go to bed (not an issue when very young, but becomes one from maybe 18 months old)

[razzlebathbone]

Oh and I don't know how this 'not yet conceived' child thing works but I would be mightily pissed off if a nursery said it had no places for my child because it was keeping them for imaginery children who may or may not exist in the future.

[fuzzpig]

DCs really really need outdoor play. My DD spends most of her nursery time outside. It is so good for them for many reasons.

[fuzzpig]

By which I mean, it's not just about the physical outdoor play like on bikes and climbing frames (which is what the 'outdoor basement' tries to emulate) - it's about being out with grass, flowers and birds, finding spiders, getting some natural light (those bright lights you get in big halls are awful - headache central for me!) and vitamin D, nice fresh air.

[mousymouse]

the lack of outside space was definately one of the reasons I didn't go for the nursery closer to my work.

[Sidge]

I would prefer a nursery where children can jump in puddles, make mud pies, look for bugs, collect leaves, climb, slide, run and jump on grass, roll in a sandpit etc.

Could you use nursery #1 for the first six months or so (convenience then where you work for when you have a younger baby) and switch to nursery #2 once your child is about 12-18 months and more mobile?

[NinthWave]

What Razzle said. No wonder the waiting lists are so bloody long - they're obviously filled with imaginary children

[DELHI]

I wouldn't waste another second on thinking about this one - you aren't even pg yet, and you're going to have a great many more pressing decisions to make before this one. Try thinking about what really matters right now....

[Ripeberry]

Just so WEIRD to be considering nurseries before you've even got pregnant!
You may hate your job and become a bare footed earth mother and never want to go back again and have baby after baby!

One step at a time woman

[RoundOrangeHead]

I'd wait until you actually get pregnant, who knows how long it will take, are they going to keep a place spare indefinitely? bizarre

[pigletmania]

Yabvvvvvu even considering the nursery without a proper outdoor play area. Kids get vital vitamins from sunlight. So your lo would be cooped up all day inside come rain or shine . So you are going to stay inside all day yourself with the baby, how healthy I'd that. The nursery without a proper acres to outdoors would be a dealbreaker for me

[MorticiaAddams]

I would definitely go for the outdoor space too.

I've never had a child in all day nursery but I thought visiting was discouraged as it unsettles the child.

[EricNorthmansMistress]

Do nurseries really keep places for unconceived hypothetical children? Bizarre.

I would never consider a nursery without a garden, the first one sounds completely weird.

[mousymouse]

the nursery my dc go to only puts children on the waiting list that are already born.

[EricNorthmansMistress]

DC would commute in with me to work and we could spend lunch together sometimes, etc.

Yeah you can't do that. You can't take your kid out of nursery for lunch, it's a completely terrible idea.

[gallicgirl]

You need to be looking at the OFSTED reports too and not just using hearsay to make a judgement.

There's a lot of factors to consider. I visited one nursery that has a huge garden and appears to be lovely but I got the impression the kids are thrown out to play as much as possible and playing/learning didn't appear to be very structured.

However, I wouldn't consider a nursery with no garden at all because we live in a flat and don't have a garden so the outside play would be vital.

I wouldn't take the child out at lunchtime either. Both nurseries I've visited do lunch at different times for each age group so there's no guarantee your child would be having lunch at the same time as you anyway.

[RevoltingPeasant]

Lots of useful advice here, thanks.

Getting the message about not unsettling a baby by visiting - I can see why that would be a bad idea. Noted.

I honestly have no idea how the not-yet-conceived DC thing works, but they do it - my office-mate has just done this. I think it doesn't mean that you have a place held open but that you remain at the top of the waiting list, iyswim. So, they ring you and see if your DC is ready even conceived yet and if you say no, they go to number 2 - but then next time a place comes up, they go back to you, etc.

I suppose.

It is a good point about the commute. DP and I work in two different cities: right now, we live in the city where I work, but this might change. So it might be a 'commute' of 15 min on the bus, or an hour's train journey/ car ride. Depending on where we rent next.

[pigletmania]

Whaaaaaaat putting a dc that does not yet exist and boy even in utero. What if you can't have kids , how bizarre

[RevoltingPeasant]

Dunno piglet - ask the nursery It's just how they seem to do it!

[pigletmania]

They are weird