To be really cross with school over their protection of a bully.

[aquashiv]

Our dd has a little boy in her class who is a right sod to all the kids. Today he tried to stab dd in the wrist with a scissors. Now there has been a number of incidents where parents have complained about him he gets sent to the head gets golden time removed but nothing makes a blind bit of difference.
He has been really violent to our dd on more than one occasion. Lately we have told her to stick up for herslef as we were fed up of her coming home with bruises at his hands.

Anyways I was called in to be told about the latest incident at his hands and was too shocked esp when the teacher said one of them would have to be moved class next year and it could be our dd. Her teacher is brilliant but this seems so unfair. I asked her as dd ever initiated the attacks she said no yet it seems highly unfair its our dd that has is almost been victimised instead of this boy.
We spoke to the parents about it last month and the father just laughed and said thats what kids do. The Mother thinks he can do no wrong.
I know you never know the whole story but why on earth are they protecting the bully?

I don't think it's 'precious' to want to look after your offspring - thats what mothers are programmed to do

Fortunately the state steps in to oversee those children who don't seem to have parents with the same instincts.

From reading many posters here, there are a fair few in the education business and we could make your hair curl, and you possibly cry, with things we see/deal with on a daily basis.

I like Kerala said.

F* me, I like WHAT Kerala said, even.

I suffered at the hands of numerous bullies throughout my school life. One time we were told that the boy who had tried to smash my head against the wall was "having a hard time at home, his mum died last year". Now I'm very sorry about that but WTF? I didn't kill her so why should I suffer? My father abandoned us, my mum tried to commit suicide 3 times and I had to help look after my grandparents and I didn't go round attacking kids.

I don't care what problems these kids have at home, they should not be allowed to take it out on other children. The problem child should be moved, not the victim.

troisgarcons his parents are professionals within the medical profession, they both work long hours and he goes to an after and sometimes before school club. Also a gran that drops him off. Far more of an extended family than we have. I know how I sound saying this but he really isnt a child that has parents that dont care at all about him. Quite the opposite.
IDrinkFromTheirSkulls am sorry thats bloody awful.

DP thinks he is just an over indulged spoilt only child that is used to getting his own way. If he doesnt get his own way he throws a fit and his parents think its all normal. I guess thats the bit I dont understand also. Why tell us its all normal and for her to not think there is any blame to be had by him.

I dont know much about special needs though I really dont know so can only imagine.

Sadly IME the authorities will always support the bully over the victim and this extends to adulthood. It is easier for them to pander to the bully as they usually, by virtue of being a bully, has more power to make their lives difficult and it has always been that way, was like that when I was at school.

To compound the existing problem the current culture is to be inclusive to those with problems which includes the violent ones. There was an incident in a school near me where a boy (Y1) was told to sit down by the teacher, he flew into a rage and tried to beat his class mates with chair. The teacher was not allowed to touch him so threw herself between him and the other children ending up needing treatment at the minor injuries unit for head injuries. ON return to school she was disciplined for causing the incident as it wouldn't have happened of she hadn't asked him to sit down. Guess how many of that class received support, yes only the violent one and those young children had to face him every day as it was against his rights to be excluded. Their rights to feel safe were worthless.

I don't think you are being precious at all. I hope your dd is OK and everything gets sorted.

"his parents are professionals within the medical profession, they both work long hours and he goes to an after and sometimes before school club. Also a gran that drops him off".

Just speculating here but this rings alarm bells. He's 5. Sounds like this little boy isnt actually getting much attention at home at all

(not saying this is an excuse for his behaviour - maybe just a reason?)

misty0 Yeh I know I think you are right.:( This has been going on since nursery foundation and now Year 1. I have sort of always known he was a handful.

Its mad really but I am actually starting to think she would be better off just getting away from him. Its my job to protect her and if she stays in the same class as him one day he could do her some serious damage.

Your dd sounds lovely I'm so sorry you both have to go through this.

Your dd obviously is a very kind little girl if she does things like take him to the medical room, so I would talk to her and explain that he probably has some problems that make him angry just so that she doesn't start to feel that it's her fault. However, you also don't want her to feel so sorry for him that she lets him get away with being horrible to her, so I would think about trying to teach her ways to recognise when he is getting angry or is about to lash out so that she knows when to get help from an adult or to simply move away from him. Giving her some words to use when he does something that she doesn't like might help too, and if she is feeling some kindness towards this boy you could tell her that it will actually help him to hear these things from her so that she doesn't then feel like she is being mean to the boy with problems.

That could all be useless advice, or something that you are doing already, but I think in a situation like this, anthing you can do to help yourself and your poor dd to feel that little bit more empowered has got to be a good thing.

You could even talk to the teacher about it and ask them what strategies they are putting into place to help manage this behaviour in the classroom, so that you can reinforce it at home. This might also have the benefit of showing the school that you are not going to let this lie, but you do have some understanding of the difficulty they are facing as well.

I'd also think that if the Father just laughed and shrugged off his childs behaviour with 'that's what kids do', he really isn't that much of an involved parent who cares a great deal about their child's happiness. And lets face it, this boy can't be a particularly happy child if he is bahaving liek this on a regular basis. I'm sure the majority of parents would be mortified to know that their child was doing this, and if he had that attitude to you, he probably hasn't exactly been cooperative when the school have spoken to him either. Which could be one of the many reasons why the school thinks it would be easier to move your child rather than theirs. But if you feel strongly that you want your dd to saty in the same class, I would start putting forward the case why she should stay put now, as there isn't much of this year left. Think of all the reasons why it would be detrimental to your dd to be moved and present them to the head in a meeting.

In the father's defence, I can't imagine he wants to discuss his son's bad behaviour with everyone in the playground. It doesn't necessarily mean he is not an 'involved parent'.

You'd think he'd apologise to the parent of a child who his son had attacked with scissors though wouldn't you? Or at least show some concern instead of brushing it off.

If you want the school to take you seriously you need to talk to the headteacher.

Keep it simple and the headteacher won't have a chance to disagree with you. It would be harmful to your child if they were moved. The bullying needs to be addressed by dealing with the bully and the bully's parents.

Could they not have a general re-jig of the classes so that they separate your dd and this little boy, without it looking like they are being "targetted" in any way? My dd's school do this in the juniors every year anyway. Your dd could then stay with some of her friendship group and the boy could be placed with the appropriate teacher...

The school governors have key responsibilities in relation to a school?s anti-bullying practice. This includes investigating complaints about bullying. If the school aren't dealing with bullying, the School governors should be made aware of it.

I would not have involved the parent of the other child - I can't see that helping and you have seen the reaction.

I would allow your DD to be moved. Many junior schools mix up the year groups year by year, and it is healthy and new friendships are made. There are always new children entering schools and leaving schools. Think beyond the immediate, "it's not her fault - why should she and not the bully be moved" and think long term, better for her to be away from the situation in class and make new friends and carry on being a confident happy child who likes school.

SHe is a kind little thing, she is the only one that sits and plays with a child in her class that is statemented and has special needs. It has been mentioned she doesnt over react when he starts shouting just sits calmly with him. A couple of times in the past she has told me this boy cant help it when talking about times when he has punched her and kicked her. Thats a good point bubblecoral Maybe this is what she doesnt recognise in a child the sudden anger and how to deal with it. I had never thought of it like that. How on earth do I teach her this though. How can you tell when a child is getting angry though thats the problem it comes from no where.

DD's uncle has special needs and she is so naturally lovely with him he makes sudden loud noises that has made me drop my coffee and she calmly sits next to him rubbing his hand

I like the question about what strategies are you using to deal with his behaviour? Would they tell me that? The only one I know off is to keep them apart. Another Mother whose son he attacked recently was told that he could use reasonable force to get this boy off - well thats not right is it? That just leads to fighting.

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Dreams; dp spoke to his father they are matey and didnt apportion blame to his son. Ofcourse he would defend his son but not laugh it off. I know its not what you should do yet we were becoming frustrated at the violence escalating. Not least I was worried she would retaliate.

Getting back to DD if I thought she would cope well with the change then so be it. Her last teacher had a long list of things she told me she couldnt do and she hated going into foundation. They thought she might be dyslexic as she was showing signs. However this year we have seen a real improvement in her, This teacher is just the opposite she had her reading within a couple of weeks and has done amazing things with her already. Not least telling me at parents eve that they love having her in the class and is a pleasure to teach (she prob says that to all the parents). If others were moving I would understand. I do feel its unfair and I hate the idea of making a fuss with the school. Especially as all you have said there is lots they cant wont tell you.

I wonder what I will hear today at pick up .....the joys of motherhood.(:=().

Thanks for the advice once again.

Op - I feel your pain...My Ds had 5 years of torment from another boy(no SN) who for whatever reason was fixated on him.

In P1 he tried to cut off his pinky with a pair of scissors; you'd be surprised at how much damage those things can do!

In P5 he bit him several times while away on school camp. School didn't take it seriously as it wasn't witnessed. God knows how they thought the bite marks had got onto the back of DS upper arm/shoulder . (go on try it)

However as he had graffittied DS bed with "DS is gay" his parents were called to school and a formal report was made as it was homophobic. Had he not used the word gay I doubt anything would have been done

BTW both of the boys parents were senior school teachers at the local high school and never ever in the 5 years of school seemed to take any issue with their childs behavior.

Luckily we were able to move schools in P6

A bit of a ramble there but what I'm trying to say is that I really wished I had been more on top of the situation right from the beginning. I naively thought the boy would grow out of it.