To ask you honestly, if you think are circumstances are such that we could afford three children??

[twoorthree]

DH and I are seriously considering a third DC at the moment. I REALLY want another one, but honestly, I don't know if we'd be more sensible financially to stop at two.

Have namechanged, am going to give our exact financial circs and would be grateful if you could give your opinion on whether or not we should stop at two (based on financial circs alone, as in all other areas we are very keen to go ahead).

We live in the SE

• Have a mortgage of 175k on a house worth 250k
  
• DH earns 43k a year
  
• For now I am a SAHM (when I gave up work my full time salary was 40k a year, I hope to go back to p/t employment at a lower salary when the DC are in schooL)
  
• We have savings to dip in to day to day of circa £15k
  
• No debt
  
• DC both have trust funds set up by DH parents (no idea of what is in them but apparently enough to put them through Uni). We have never asked for this, or been consulted on this so kind of in the dark here.
  

Live in a 4 bed house.

[twoorthree]

Thank you Rhubarb! Good points, I'll adress the ones I think I can:

This is why you shouldn't.
Think of the size of England and how much of our green belt is being sucked away to make affordable housing.
Now think about what if everyone has 3 children - how much bigger would our population be?
Yes you can say that some people don't have any, or stop at one, but in reality how many people do that?
You should replace you and your dh with two children if you thought about the population. No more than that.

Very good points, and I totally agree with you. Not trying to pull a sob story here but my only sibling died when he was a teenager and in a way, I've always felt that maybe it would be ok if I had a child that took up the space of one of his children? Not in the slightest bit rational I know. But I just feel that there's a spare 'place' there?

Other practical issues:
Food comes in packs of two or four - we don't buy food in packages.

Holidays come in packages of even numbers - we have dogs and only ever rent holiday homes in the UK (and only holiday once every two years)

Family tickets to days out etc come as a family of four. - good point although we don't do these often.

Everything is catered to you having no more than two children, economically wise, so you would be considerably poorer having to cater for an extra one. Think about your shopping - packs of yoghurts (fights over the last one), ready meals, 2 for 1 offers - as above, don't eat ready meals - yoghurts come in packs of 6 anyway don't they?

[TheRhubarb]

Ok consider this, I am guessing now that your youngest is what, 3? I yearned for another when my first was 2 or 3, had a silbing for her and yearned for another again when he was the same age, I'm told this is quite common. I had to fight that yearning and now I'm very glad I did. He's now 7 and she is 10 and we are slowly getting our freedom back. That is having nights out every now and then and discovering the single people we fell in love with. Children are all very well and good but at times they do get in the way of your marriage and you tend to neglect your partner, whom you fail to mention btw.

I understand your argument about your dead sibling but you know that doesn't quite stand up to logic, however sentimental it might be (and a lovely thought). One extra person creates huge amounts of waste and environmentally it's a disaster. This small country just can't handle the maths.

And most things do come in even numbers so you will find yourselves spending more money. I hear what you say about buying food in packages and holidays, but everyone does sometimes buy ready meals on bad days and package holidays can often be a bargain (with or without pet) but only for even numbers, again. I know all of this because my friend has 3 and she has struggled with the odd number (she had one and then twins).
If you have a choice, I would say wait another year then see how you feel, The broodiness does pass, you don't think it will but it does and you'll wonder how you ever considered sleepless nights, nappies, loss of freedom etc in the first place! It might seem lovely doing it all over again but you have less patience and less time to give each extra sibling.

[Ninx]

How old are the DC? I'm not sure that yoghurt and holidays are quite worthy of serious consideration if there is going to be any sort of age-gap if at all.

Seven years between DD and DS who is four and I'm thinking about having another child. My son is autistic and hardly eats at all. My daughter is getting to the age where she will be more interested in what her peers are doing and will want to do her own thing more often than not, rightly.

Very sorry to hear about your brother by the way OP.

[twoorthree]

Thanks Rhubarb, it was just the financial side of things I wanted an opinion on and you've not presened me with much of a convincing argument there, but I appreciate you trying

[Serenitysutton]

How is there a space for your sibling? Surely you've fillled up any space by having 2?

[Serenitysutton]

Ah ok x posted. Agree yogurt and meal sizes is daft consideration. I think you should totally go for it, why would you even ask Internet weirdos? Validation of the choice you've already made?

[twoorthree]

Serenity, rhubarb said:

"You should replace you and your dh with two children if you thought about the population. No more than that."

And I (thought) I explained that as my brother couldn't replace himself (as he's not here to do that) he left a 'spare' place for someone else to do so. Actually, come to think of it, he left two - his childs and his own

[Serenitysutton]

Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood what roobarb said. That's daft if you're worried about population because you would want to decrease it, not sustain it.

[TheRhubarb]

rhubarb actually. And I misunderstood the op, I thought you were asking for all considerations, not just financial ones. Of course if you think you can afford another then all well and good. But it will put a strain on the environment whichever way you look at it.
And I am sorry about your db. But imagining that he would have had a child isn't much help - what if he didn't? What if he married a girl who couldn't? We can't predict what the future would have held. You have a child not because of your brother, but because it's want you want after careful consideration of your own situation.

[twoorthree]

Rhubarb- the friend with the twins, was that Custardo?

[TheRhubarb]

Do I have a friend? Dunno ;)

[LDNmummy]

People have 3 children with much less than you have. Go for it OP if you really want another and feel your circumstances are not going to change anytime soon.

Sounds like you are very well sorted out to provide for another LO and I wish you luck

[onceamai]

My only regret is having only two dc. Go for it.

[pingu2209]

It all depends upon the lifestyle you want/have. Are you a 4/5 star girl? Do you want hotels and all inclusive or are you happy to self cater? Do you want foreign holidays each year? Do you want to be able to go shopping for food without thinking about what you are buying? Do you want to have meals out and babysitters each month? Do you want to buy clothes and shoes without thinking?

We have 3 children, I'm a SAHM, a considerably bigger mortgage but my husband earns quite a bit more. However, some things are not possible on the budget for example, we have 1 car and no foreign holidays. I'm not saying we could never have those things, but rather than being a spend thrift day to day, I live freely with meals out and a monthly babysitter etc but don't have the bigger things.

A foreign holiday in the school holidays for 5 people (once baby is over 2) is very expensive; at least £3k for a basic 3 star self catering holiday.

A second car costs at least £300 more each month, I spend that money on days out for the family and a babysitter and night out for me and hubby.

[lynehamrose]

Childcare is the thing that increases
Most when you have another baby, and as you don't work, this doesn't apply in your case, so I don't see how the day to day costs are going to be massively different.
I would go for it- soon, because the other thing to think about is your earning potential. The longer you're not working the harder you may find it to get back in, and the less you are paying in NI , and pension, so in your position I would go for it now

[siasl]

You haven't mentioned what sort of pension you and your DH are likely to receive or whether you will get any sort of inheritance. If you or your DH have a defined contribution pension you should remember that at the current time a £100k pot will only give you a £3k pension (inflation-linked). So you'll need £1mm for £30k/year. If its defined benefit, its likely to be more generous but you need to check. You have to assume you'll both live to 80+.

Your DH's parents really need to tell you how much they have put into trust for each of your current two DCs and whether they can match it if you have a third DC (2 DCs with a trust and one without might be a problem!). How can you plan for your families future without knowing the amount of money in these trusts? If they have put aside £150k+ per child then you can be relatively confident that this will pay for uni fees in 15+ years time. If they have put £50k in trust then its unlikely that will pay for everything required given how the better unis are likely to end charging the same sort of fees that top US unis do.

I think you can clearly afford a third DC. However, it's also likely that a third DC will mean making some sort of financial sacrifices later on.

[Laquitar]

Even childcare doesn't make much difference after 2. If you have 1 child you have more options (nursery, cm, after school clubs, breakfast clubs). With two is too expensive and works almost the same as nanny. And if you go for nanny then it doesn't make difference if you have 2 or 3.

[twoorthree]

THanks all.

We are definitely not luxury holiday people! As I say, we go self catering in the UK every two years and are very happy with that.

Re: pensions, I've got ten years in a civil service pension and DH has about the same split between a local govt one and a scheme for his current work (not sure the details of that one).

Inheritance - I've never counted that tbh, just worked on the basis we need to fund ourselves. However, if I were to be entirely mercenary between them our parents have four properties and there's only DH and I, DH's brother, his wife and two kids on IL side, and just me on mine. I have an Aunt who never married and says I'm in her will too. SHe has two properties, but I'm rather hoping she lives everything of hers to charity. I actually feel really uncomfortable typing all of that out. It feels very mercenary and it's not something I've ever thought about really.

[LovelyDaffs]

I'm going to go against the grain and say that you will find it tough financially, this isn't a reason not to have a third dc though.

[twoorthree]

Thanks lovelydaffs, good to have another point of view. I'm not convinced we're comfortable either.

We certainly can't afford private school, posh holidays, babysitters, meals out at the moment so there isn't that much we can give up. Wine, maybe, not sure I oculd cope with that tohugh

[lynehamrose]

You DO have to think about these things (even though I agree it doesn't feel nice). Not so much the possible inheritances because there are no guarantees what anyone will do (care home fees etc ) plus inheritance tax is massive. But pensions are an area to think hard about and also employability once you are out of the workplace a while. It's the long term you need to think of, as you obviously could manage 3 kids now. We stopped at 2, mainly because of the long term things like university costs, helping with house deposits etc; I think if we'd had 3, we would have got on fine for the moment but we could struggle in the future

[MainlyMaynie]

I think you have quite a high mortgage for your current income. It's more than 4 times your income, which will restrict your ability to remortgage in this market - you'll be able to, but you may well not get the cheap deal you're aiming for. So actually I regard your situation as slightly risky, especially as you are dependent on one earner. How long could you survive if he was made redundant? What are the current markets for both his occupation and yours? You have some equity, but what is the local house market like? Could you really sell at that price if you had to? The additional costs of another child may be minimal so in that sense you can afford it, but your risks go up I think.

[emy72]

I agree with MainlyMaynie, I wouldn't feel comfortable relying on a 40k salary with such a high mortgage in the current climate, unless I had some solid backup. (ie savings covering at least 1 years' salary - it's a tough world out there for jobs at the moment!).

I don't think short to medium term a third child would make such a huge difference in this respect, apart from the longer time in which you have indicated you would not want to go back to work.

(I have 4 children by the way!)

[twoorthree]

Thank you!

It's funny, because all the negative reasons are also very good reasons to have no children at all! I'm very glad we haven't lived our lives that cautiously, so perhaps that's my answer....