or hormental about DS's nursery?

[pinkypanther]

DS is 13 months old. He has recently moved up from the baby room (excellent) to the toddler (1 - 2) room at his nursery and the problems have started from there.

My issues with the toddler room in the 2 weeks since he has moved include:

1. losing his comforter (found a few days later after I asked where it was)
   
2. leaving him in a dirty nappy
   
3. no one apparently taking any time to interact with him (I am not there during the day but when I arrive staff are generally ignoring him and the other kids)
   
4. dropping his afternoon bottle without telling me (I only discovered this today and it explains why he is so upset and starving by the time I get him home)
   
5. putting him down for a nap at 12.20 when they know I am coming at 12.30 (on that occasion the excuse was that he "wasn't on the register"
   
6. phoning me today to tell me I must come and collect him as he has hand foot and mouth, when he has been to the GP the same morning who confirmed his rash is an allergic reaction to something, and not hand foot and mouth. He is now excluded on the basis of nursery's diagnosis of hand foot and mouth...
   
   I am 6 months pregnant and am seriously considering starting maternity leave early and pulling him out, I can't bear it, but DH thinks I am over-reacting.

[working9while5]

heliumballoons, they are not interacting with them much between 1-2 because they need independence?

Not liking this one bit!

1-2 is such a crucial time in terms of language and cognitive development. They really need some bloody interaction at this age. Really!

[cookielove]

Yes but if a parent walks through the door, and the child poo's it does happen, its not the staff fault for not changing it straight away, i personally always offer to change a pooey nappy if not caught before the child is leaving. If it was happening on a regular basis then yes this would be cause for concern if happened once or twice a term, i wouldn't be that bothered.

[RitaMorgan]

I would be mortified to send a child in my care home in a dirty nappy and with a sore bottom. With a 1:3 ratio the staff should be keeping a better eye on the children - changing dirty nappies is a very basic thing to get wrong.

[cookielove]

RitaMorgan - why should the staff be mortified, if he had literally just done it then they are blameless in this, also i have known children who have had to be changed almost immediatly due to several poos a day causing them to go red and sore, so if he had done several he could still have only been in it minutes and still been a bit red.

1. This still wouldn't worry me, children often tidy up comforters, shoes, dummies, and we have to search boxes, handbags (from the dressing up), and a hundred and one other places for it. Having lost means he put it down when he was playing and it was prob moved by another child.
   
   they will be offering him water, prob at several points during the day, so i wouldn't be worrying about that.
   
   if your wavering then do what u think is best.

[Grabaspoon]

X posts

[RitaMorgan]

I disagree on the nappy - twice in one week? After the first time it happened the staff should have been mortified and checked him before he was due to go home. A sore bottom and dried/caked on poo is not the result of being in a dirty nappy for a few minutes.

[Grabaspoon]

I still don't think the nappy thing is neglectful unless

• It's a common occurance
  
• He goes home without it being noticed
  
• He is sore from sitting in it all day
  
  It is possible that it was done literally minutes before the parent arrived and the nursery nurse was busy changing another child or was going to get his nappies etc.

[pinkypanther]

It is really helpful to have some views from the other side, thank you cookie and Grabaspoon.

(1) he had the comforter (a soft toy) to help him settle as it was supposed to be a familiar object - I know this is quite minor though and wouldn't merit mentioning if it wasn't for the other things.

(2) has actually happened twice in the space of a week now - first time he was red and sore so I think he had been in it for a while, and the second time it was sort of dried and caked on so again, I think it had been a while.

(3) one time I arrived there were three members of staff and three babies/toddlers. One member of staff was writing paperwork and the other two were chatting to each other, no interaction with kids.

(4) he does drink from a cup and they are offering him water (I think) but it's not enough for him when he's at home so I would be surprised if he would cope all day at nursery. He could be refusing but when I asked why he hadn't had any milk that day they looked at me blankly so it was clear he hadn't been offered any.

(5) it was the room manager who had put him down and my husband has specificially reminded staff that morning that he only does a half day that day...again I can see this is minor were it not for the fact that they ought to know who is there when!

(6) I am seriously wavering about this as I know they have to look after the interests of the others but he has had the rash for a month, it just flared up yesterday/today.

[cookielove]

Yup great minds think alike Grab

[acebaby]

Take him out on the basis of 2 3 4 and 5. The nappy situation and lack of interaction are neglectful; not discussing feeding and napping schedules with you is poor communication (a huge issue in my opinion). 1 & 6 are regular occurrences even in good nurseries. Ds2's eczema was diagnosed as chicken pox twice at his (good) nursery!

Loving hormental

[Grabaspoon]

X posts Cookie :)

[Grabaspoon]

I was a room leader for the 1-2 age range

1. Happens - we try not to loose things, but sometimes they happen - once it took us 3 days to find a child's dummy - and we had tipped out the room etc - but 13 1 year olds are amazing at hiding things
   
2. How long for? I know that sometimes children have the ability of pooing literally 2 minutes before their parent arrives - as a nanny who has also picked up from nursery I also found this with DC. If it was a regular thing then I would be concerned - if it had just happened or he was next in the "queue for changing" then slightly lesser of an issue.
   
3. Are they ignoring the other kids so that they are greeting parents who are arriving = 8am in our room used to be manic with children eating breakfast, playing, and parents dropping off 8 children, 2 adults = not much engagement whilst things are going on but as soon as we can we do play/interact.
   
4. Is this down to miscommunication ie someone thought you said he'd dropped it - or even because the others aren't having an afternoon bottle they forgot to make/do his - I know I have sometimes realised 30 minutes late that actually baby "Tommy" still has a bottle and to quickly go grab it.
   
5. Again is there miscommunication - if lunch covers are in the room then they might not know and just put him down with the rest of the children - although the room nursery nurse should be aware, was he perhaps tired and fell asleep in his dinner.
   
6. If there is HFM going round the nursery then I can understand why they might send him home - I would suggest that explaining the allergy thing to them again.

[cookielove]

From a nursery nurse point of view, not saying that you have no right to be upset, but how it may come across from their side

1. losing his comforter (found a few days later after I asked where it was)
   
   

• toys get lost all the time, we encourage parents not to bring in anything to valuable in case of loss or breakage, so far have not lost anything at my nursery but i know lots of parents have lost several comfort toys, one coming straight to mind that they are on the 3rd elephant since birth as they have lost all the others child is 2.
  
  

2. leaving him in a dirty nappy
   
   

• could he have pooed as you arrived, just before you arrived, maybe 10 minutes before you arrived, and nursery nurse was doing nappies and hadn't got to him yet, did you change the nappy, or the worker? what did his bum look like, red sore, like he'd been sitting in it for a while?
  

3) no one apparently taking any time to interact with him (I am not there during the day but when I arrive staff are generally ignoring him and the other kids)

• often pick up times, are busy and staff are busy talking to all the parents, keeping the children engaged, this doesn't mean they ignore him all day.
  

4) dropping his afternoon bottle without telling me (I only discovered this today and it explains why he is so upset and starving by the time I get him home)

• in 1-2 year rooms children most likely drink from cups, he may be dropping it naturally if they are offering it in a cup instead of a bottle, or he may just refuse to drink it, as he is not 100% settled in the room as of yet.
  

5) putting him down for a nap at 12.20 when they know I am coming at 12.30 (on that occasion the excuse was that he "wasn't on the register"

- maybe the message wasn't passed along to all the nursery nurses, and was actually just a mix up

6) phoning me today to tell me I must come and collect him as he has hand foot and mouth, when he has been to the GP the same morning who confirmed his rash is an allergic reaction to something, and not hand foot and mouth. He is now excluded on the basis of nursery's diagnosis of hand foot and mouth...

• lots of doctors often tell parents its viral, when sometimes its not, maybe there is an outbreak and the nursery nurse had seen a lot of it that week, however unless there is an out break, HFM has no exclusion period unless the child is unwell with it.
  

I am not disagreeing with anything you say, but wanted to offer insight from the other side, do go with your gut instinct on this though, you'll only end up regretting it if you don't.

[CheerfulYank]

I say take him out. I worked in a toddler room for awhile and we took the most care with the new little ones, since they weren't used to the room etc.

If you're not comfortable with him there it's not worth it.

[Panzee]

Hormental is a great word.

Take him out.

[pinkypanther]

Griphook - no unfortunately not. 4 & 6 happened yesterday and today i.e. after I spoke to the manager. Such a shame because the I couldn't fault the care he had in the baby room (he started when he was 8 months).

DH has just emailed them and raised 4 & 6 and we will see what they say!

[Booandpops]

My dd hated her 2nd room which was basically teenagers running the room rather than experienced nursery nurses in the baby room
I Sooooo regret not moving her now as I waited till she was old enough to move to my local nursery at three yrs I should not have waited it was six months!!!!

She is in reception now and loved the local nursery and her school but that's the one thing I wish I'd trusted my instint on and didn't that I regret

[RitaMorgan]

heliumballoons - they won't interact so much with 1-2s as they're teaching them independence? Completely disagree! There is absolutely no reason to interact with 1-2s less than there is with babies, that's ridiculous.

[griphook]

did anything change after you spoke to the manager?. my little ds starts nursery and the more I think about the points you have raised the more worried I am.
If nothing has changed after speaking to the manager, then go higher and if no luck there go to OFSTED

[pinkypanther]

ps thanks for all your responses. Hormental not my word - am sure I got it from MN somewhere!

[pinkypanther]

He has become really clingy to me since moving in there. I am so sad about the whole thing. I just feel like in the baby room they looked after him properly whereas now I'm just abandoning him into a room where most of the other kids are older and bigger and the staff don't really care that much.

I have already raised 1, 2, 3 and 5 with the manager last week and they fobbed me off really, so I wanted some perspective on whether it is me and my hormones or whether this is actually unacceptable.

Notice period is 2 months and alternative childcare not easy to find in this area.

DH's view is that some of the things aren't great but that it is important for DS to be socialised - he is only there 2.5 days a week at the moment.

[jojowest]

poor little scrap, sounds awful, like an orphanage

[Bogeyface]

Excluding him before seeing the GP, ok. But disregarding the diagnosis in favour of their own is not on at all. And the register thing is really bad, as someone else said, if there was a fire or some such then no one would know he was there!

I wouldnt start ML early (unless you are planning to resign after the baby comes in which case I dont suppose it makes much difference) but I would be looking for another nursery.

Will you be keeping him in a couple of sessions a week after the baby comes? I would consider it as it will be good for both of you, and if you are then definetely change nurseries.

[TantePiste]

hormental - that's excellent. Can I use it?

The toddler room sounds very poorly run. I would take in my list of issues and arrange for a meeting with the director to go through the list and discuss... preferable alternative outcomes.

[coolascucumber]

When DS1 was at nursery (some years ago now) we noticed a big change in the level of care given after he left the baby room (staff ratio changed). He started to have terrible nappy rash, one day he was left in the same nappy all day. Another time they left him in a fleecy jumper all day even though he was boiling hot. I decided to take him out early when pregnant with DD1 after trying to sort out these care issues. You need to raise your concerns now and monitor the situation carefully.